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THE CENTRAL BANK has said Ireland’s commercial lenders are in the process of preparing new ‘loan modification techniques’, in line with the government-commissioned Keane Report, in order to assist struggling mortgage holders.
In a statement this afternoon the bank said it had begun receiving information from individual banks about their resolution strategies, ahead of October’s deadline for bringing the new systems into operation.
“The banks have committed to a step change in their operations and have provided detailed plans to enhance their handling of arrears cases. The Central Bank will continue to monitor their implementation closely,” it said.
“The lenders provided details of their menu of forbearance and loan modification techniques. These are broadly in line with the recommendations of the Keane report, including mortgage to rent and different variations of split mortgages.
It added that individual lenders would begin running their programmes on a pilot basis ‘shortly’, in order to get a more complete picture of the impact that the programmes would have on their capital positions.
The most prominent lenders were examining their loan books to identify which loans could be subject to the new procedures, it added, though any predictions were ”still subject to considerable uncertainty and modelling assumptions”.
In some cases, banks will need to make ‘significant improvement’ in their operational abilities, a move which may mean some staff restructuring or recruitment within the main lenders.
The Keane Report, published last October, proposed a number of measures including allowing people in negative equity to transfer it to another home, and allowing people whose homes had been repossessed to continue renting them from their lender.
The report was criticised by groups including New Beginning, however, as being “a banker’s solution in the bankers’ interest”.
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..who actually voted yes? I didnt, dont know anyone who did, dont know anyone who even knows anyone that voted yes…seems strange..
Anyway – why is captain hindsight only coming out now?! Where was he the last few months??!!!
Mick, he was out for the past few weeks. Had articles in print and online media telling us to vote no, which were ignored by many people!
Sure didn’t RTE interveiw him?oh wait….
Krugmans been warning against this and Europe/Irelands bad decision making every week, for years, in the NYT and elsewhere
You mustn’t know a lot of people.
I voted yes Mick along with the other 60.7% if those who voted….Come on over, it must be lonely in your side…
As with most of these types of referenda, (and as the results yesterday have clearly shown) the voting was strongly polarised within certain locales/socio-economic groups. So it’s entirely reasonable that none of your family, friends or acquaintances voted yes. Personally, I don’t know of anyone who voted no…
What a load of ole guff Sean, no one in my family voted yes, and we do not live in your “working class areas”, we are all “professionals”, some in business. That’s the type of crap that segregates our nation! So now we are being told that those who voted no are less educated poor people? My God is there no end to the arrogance and delusion?
Diarmaid, the referendum is over. whether it was yes or no, we are in for a tough few years regardless. Seriously move on. United we stand, divided we fall. Help us build a better Republic….
Sean. Come out of your private school bubble there and broaden your mind. Plenty of your associates voted no but would probably not dare say it at the Leinster match for fear of ridicule from people who are too conditioned to express a different opinion.
Well said Diarmaid, I also voted NO, as a “middle class, professional”. I object to this socio-economic malarky. This was fear versus anger. I reckon many when questioned said they’d vote no, but in fact voted yes because they felt they had no choice.
Anyway, we just have to get on with it now. Its been an ugly and devisive campaign that we’d best forget.
@Diarmuid, I was merely replying to Mick’s question as to who voted yes and offered a plausible explanation as to why someone might not know a person who voted the other way. And please don’t put words in my mouth, “locale” does not translate to “working-class area”!
Ok so Sean, qualify what you were saying so if I am putting words in your mouth? You know full well, that’s exactly what you meant, just used some marketing speak to say it without saying it!
Give over, mick. Google Krugman for 60 seconds there…
I don’t think I have to qualify that statement, the statistics do it themselves. Unless you’re suggesting that the entire county of Donegal is predominantly working class?
Where is Michael Noonan?
You don’t have to qualify anything, you’re correct, but you’re the one who said “socio-economic”, not me. Don’t backtrack now by just suggesting you said “locale”. You certainly don’t need to justify your opinion to me or anyone else, I am merely pointing out that you said it, and that I dispise that type of rationale and outlook on our society!
@limofax Hanging out with King Arrogance himself, Peter Sutherland in the US at a “insider, vested interest” event.
it was a fix
Lots of pensioners worried about savings etc and public servants panicked and went ‘yes’ at the crunch moment
Mick I made that point yesterday but for some reason my comment was deleted. Either there are an awful lot of closet yes voters or I have a lot of folk in my family/social circle who think like Mr Krugman. I honestly did not speak to one confirmed yes voter before Thursday. I know of 2 since who said they eventually went for yes out of fear for what would happen if no won the day and we needed funding in the future. Not a good enough reason in my opinion but that’s what swung it in the end. Sad but there it is. We are stuck with it now and Kenny is running to Brussels to get a pat in the head from his superiors – sad little lap dog that he is!!
Diarmuid, what is the name of this event and how come its not being covered in the news. I’d love to know what our elected minister for finance michael noonan is doing on our behalf.
@limofax At Bilderberg. A closed shop annual meeting of between 100 & 200 American and European govt reps, business leaders and financiers. I imagine they will speak of many important things as they tuck into their guinea fowl!
i did!
same here!
“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”
― Samuel Adams
The publicly elected Michael Noonan is at the private Bilderberg group meeting in Virginia.It is a highly secretive meeting of the worlds most influential people and there is almost a blanket media black out of the event.I am surprised it was even mentioned in The Times.Why would 150 of the worlds most influential people meet up?What would they discuss?and why are they so secretive about it?We all know if you want to hide something you keep it a secret.Not a conspiracy theory, an actual event!
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0602/1224317133176.html
They have very important things to talk about, firstly the back slapping of Sinister Mehole Noonan. Then down to the more serious issue of how well their bonds are performing!
Most people i know in Ireland said they voted NO, Ireland could have got a better deal on the bank debts now if they voted know. Seperate your bank debts to your national debt Ireland would grow again very quick.
What has being going on is a transferance of public money into private coffers. It’s that simple. Yes voters were frightened into accedding to a continuance of that behaviour. Krugman has for sometime been warning against that course.
Ah sher who’s this Paul Krugman chap and what would he know? Young Fine Gael and some school teachers told me it was the right thing to do so I voted yes to a working Ireland!
Who actually consults our government regarding economic policies and decisions they are not qualified to make? When I want to be informed, david mcwilliams, eddie hobbs, yet the guys who studied,earn their living through knowing this shit, yet no, we’l listen to buzz words.
Another moan that pisses me off. Compare Ireland to Germany/France regarding population and tax intake – why is Ireland trying punch above its weight? We are overspending, salaries way too high, ahh I dont care anymore, mumble mumble mumble
90% of economists also believed it was the right thing to do…
But what would they know?
Mattoid, that’s the type of generalised statement that just proves a weak argument. Provide me with the list of economists surveyed, how many were surveyed as compared to total number of economists in Ireland. Then provide me with the process of how they were selected to prove their independence. I would also like to see some proof that they survey was overseen by an independent body like all good market research companies do. If you can’t provide me with all of that info, frankly, you’re talking out your backside!
No Mattoid, 90% of the 44 economists asked by the government said they’d vote yes. The Govt then reported “90% of all economists”. Big difference in those two numbers!
Are these the same economists who said everything was fine, there would be a soft landing and we would have growth of 3% to 4% in 2011 – 2012?
Well then we should really listen and take not then….
In Australia lol
Lots of economists were for a yes. It’s easy to find “an expert” to give his opinion one way or another. A very large hole in his argument/dismal of the fiscal treaty is his point that Ireland was running a surplus prior to the shit hitting the fan. While Ireland was running a surplus it was hugely dependent on the property Bubble and all the borrowed money that was funding the bubble.
@john
Please explain how this treaty will prevent this crisis happening all over again?
The reasons why our government supported it is because they don’t know or want to contradict our European masters. No harm either in having access to the ESM slush fund to continue enjoying bloated salaries. So our children and grandchildren will just have to pay for this … who cares?
@Diarmaid
The survey was not carried out by the government, but by an independent research company, Indecon International Economic Consultants. A wide selection of academic and research economists were polled, of whom 44 responded. Government and private economists were deliberately omitted from the survey as there would be obvious bias there. For a full list of the institutions the polled economists were linked to follow this link:
http://www.kearon.ie/?p=445
If your post was intended to suggest that the survey was somehow tainted or biased towards the government then perhaps you are the one who was talking through his backside…
@Dave
Read my post above. This survey was carried out independently and had absolutely nothing to do with the government so please don’t try to mislead people by stating otherwise.
@David.
No, they were not the same economists. Government and bank economists were omitted from the survey due to obvious vested interests.
Many independent academic and research economists warned of the dangers of the property bubble and the potential for a crash well before it happened but were largely ignored at the time (or were told by Bertie that they should go off and shoot themselves).
Mattoid
that would be Stephen three gran web host Kearon, former FF advisor. Completely indepenent and unbiased!!! I dont know who you think you are trying to fool, but if you want to be gullible and fall for the lies, go right ahead.
@Diarmaid, David & Dave
The full report of the survey can be found here:
should read *3 grand web host* – dont think we shoud be blaming his grannies for his pricing.
@Ann
Do yourself a favour and just read the report. If you think there’s some kind of Kearon conspiracy I’m sure you’ll be able to find a different link to the report to put your mind at rest.
Read it when Stephen posted it initially, and my opinion still hasnt changed. Like I said last week, those who can, do. Those who cant, teach! When I wanted to know what economist had to say about the fiscal compact, I searched out the ELITES of economics and read up on Krugman and Stiglitz. Pity Sinister Mehole Noonan didnt do the same.
@Ann
Your assertion that Ireland’s professors of economics are somehow unqualified to comment is pretty laughable really and smacks of desperation, particularly given that Paul Krugman is also a teacher and lecturer as well as a columnist! Or do different rules apply to him?
They do. He’s won a nobel prize for his work. They havent. Nor is he being paid by the Irish state and is therefore completely neutral and unbiased in his opinions. And em – how many economists in Ireland? I dont think 44 qualifies as a majority of Irish economists, which is what the headlines alludes to – “.90% of Independent Economists Surveyed voting YES in Stability Treaty”.
So only Nobel prizewinners are entitled to comment now?? Even though he couldn’t do it so he’s teaching it?
Have you any idea how ridiculous this is beginning to sound??
The only way to sort this austerity mess in Ireland is to roll back the socialisation of private debts. Its as simple as that.
What would Krugman know?sure didn’t 9 out of 10 top Irish economists say a Yes was the correct action,on their past record they have never been wrong!
Funny that Norman, they were called independent economists, when in fact they were all public employees. Doesn’t sound independent to me? That and, there was no concrete list of who was surveyed as compared to a total number of economists in the state.
I know Diarmaid maybe Gary has that list.My thoughts Turkeys and Christmas.I think the country will regret that yes vote but too late now.
Kearon provided an extensive list of independent economists who all had their college employers after their names. Should track him down for it, for a laugh if nothing else!
On a side note I despair that after winning our freedom just 90 years ago we now have sold it again for the promise of access to a mere loan application form. Our country is led by idiots! We are interested in pleasing people and getting pats on the head, regardless of how many of our own people have to commit suicide, starve or emigrate to do so. I never thought I would say this but this country needs a revolution! Why are we paying Bertie Ahern multiple pensions, when 8 year old children are collapsing in schools because of mal nutrition? Why are we trying to please the Bundesbank when our own citizens are committing suicide over debts they can’t pay! And here we have 60% of the voters in the treaty either too afraid from being bullied and trying to keep a roof over their heads or too stupid because of party politics brainwashing to see what needs to be done! It’s time to take a stand!
@ Diarmaid
Well said, couldn’t agree more. I feel like I’m living through George Orwell’s ’1984′ at the minute in Ireland. Maybe rte should broadcast it so that the sheeple might see what’s going on.
Government economists are over paid, brown nosed yes men.
@Diarmaid
Perhaps you would have preferred private sector bank economists to give a less biased view??
Or perhaps you have better suggestions?
And when you think about it 60% of 50% is really not a lot of people..
I do not know anyone who voted Yes and I voted against it The “YES” voters have given our country away they did not even get a sale on it Shame on them and personally I will never forgive them
I voted yes and actually I’m not looking for your forgiveness, Bernadette.
Cant just blame it on the yes voters….those who couldnt be arsed voting carry a share of the blame too. Wonder how many yes voters are going to lose their jobs after the next bailout we wont need. The troika will more than likely want to slash the public sector and insist of Kenny & Co.Ltd slash their salaries.
in a bank yesterday….so uncomfortable when an employee held a conversation loudly with an elderly gentleman about a direct debit with insufficient funds. a man who probably has worked hard all his life and was clearly making an effort to pay something to them for his mortgage. no private room. no dignity afforded to him. that is what this country has slipped down to. sadly i fear mr krugman is right and there is no comfort in being someone who voted no. made no difference. voting in such important issues should be mandatory and none should ever pass without a clear majority from within the whole voting population. the incident in the bank will not be the first or last of its kind. shame on banks. shame for all of us really. :-)
wow, presume much. he could be on his third loan for all you know. and mandatory voting? I heard comments from voter saying they voted no simply because the government wanted a yes vote or because they didn’t understand. I don’t want uninformed, spiteful people voting for the sake of it.
Martina, the Bank employee should have been reminded as to who pays their wage ! Works every time
So you happened to hear a conversation between two people neither of whom you know and yet somehow have managed to extrapolate some wonderful fiction from it to support a point of view you already held.
i also no no one who voted yes
You know me!
It’s strikingly similar to NYCs near bankruptcy in the 70s when they went with begging bowl to the fed. Their theory was that the city could only be rebuilt on austerity measures that bought the people to their knees. Which it did with half of Brooklyn and Bronx being burnt down horrendous cuts to services and utilities and social and creative revolt…, it worked for them but at huge cost to the marginalised … That’s the kind of sacrifice a govts prepared to make !!
The Titanic has hit the ice and the band keeps playing! Bad choise is an understatement !
I think part of the problem (aside from the bank debt) is that Ireland did not go far enough. You have politicians and senior public servants on rolls Royce style packages. At the other end you have people trapped in the social welfare “poverty trap”. The only social welfare recipient I can think who’d be better off working for minimum wage is the single person with no kids living at home with Mammy – anyone else is better off, in some cases MUCH better off stating on welfare.
Working people here see that not enough effort was made to level the playing field. They no more corrections are necessary. So they try to save their money.
Bond markets see the govt is not serious about reform. The Croke Park agreement is crazy. The pensionable allowances paid by the state are nuts. The pay at the upper end of the civil service is mind boggling. Only a lunatic would lend us money
I think you are not factoring FIS into that equation.
Enda must be raging after all his hard work to get the treaty passed, I heard Hollande isn’t as affectionate as old Nicky and there’ll be no pats on the head
Well, Well, so despite Krugman’s warnings, new book and recent appearances on Newsnight and Channel 4 news, there were still those “quite right wing” who lambasted anyone with an opinion this fiscal treaty is farce whilst accusing those who supported a NO vote as being left wing lunatics and readers of the SF Echo. Whilst do suspect most who voted yes did so out of fear or with gritted teeth, I am still amazed the yes vote won out on the day. I don’t think you have to be an economist to figure out the EU project is in the toilet, the Euro will cease and in the mean time our government will lead us to complete meltdown. Anyone who can prove anything has been achieved with this austerity nonsense is deserving of a Noble Prize.
dont mind krugman, sher what does he know?Its not as if hes respected in his field like our raft of campaigners are.sher we had a few sports people and all,whats wrong with ye,who would ye trust more on the economy,a nobel winning economist or the ex meath football manager, i mean come on, its a no brainer
He has a beard, I don’t trust him !
Now that the government has access to the ESM gravy boat, how long will they continue to pay themselves, their useless quangos and their disfunctional civil servants their bloated salaries? How long before our grandchildren pay it all back?
Disgusting.
@Eric, cant answer that, I wont live that long.
I find it completely mind boggling that anybody would listen to a gormless inarticulate puppet over a Nobel Prize winning economist.
Fear will triumph over anger every time. Its the driving force in the world today to keep control. Lets not dwell on the referendum, its over and i have no problem with anyone who voted yes. The establishment is who i have an issue with it.
well not presuming anything really….just going on how nice he seemed. fact remains he was getting shoddy treatment in a bank and the lack of respect afforded him showed little empathy for him whatever his circumstances. and making it mandatory to vote would increase the likelihood of ensuring it was taken seriously. i think spite is something you might know more about than I Steven…..
Don’t don’t know anyone who voted no, except me.
gosh Jim you seem to be the only person extrapolating to suit yourself. firstly i didn’t overhear anything. everyone in the bank heard the whole thing. and secondly and rather sadly the bank employee didn’t have the manners to take it anywhere private. i therefore got to know the poor man much more than would or should have ever happened in such circumstances. you voted yes….fair play to you that was your right….others voted no. deal with it instead of castigating folk for making simple observations or having a view/opinion. i seriously doubt whether Bernadette is even concerned you don’t forgive her. get over yourself.
who to believe…who to believe…
An articulate, intellectual nobel laureate in the field of economics or a gormless, yellow bellied schoolteacher from Mayo????
Tough one.
Hedge Fund Founder, Raoul Pal, of a same mind as Krugman with respect to demise of the Euro.
“The End Game: 2012 And 2013 Will Usher In The End” – The Scariest Presentation Ever?
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 05/31/2012 20:01 -0400
If Raoul Pal was some doomsday spouting windbag, writing in all caps, arbitrarily pasting together disparate charts to create 200 page slideshows, it would be easy to ignore him. He isn’t. The founder of Global Macro Investor “previously co-managed the GLG Global Macro Fund in London for GLG Partners, one of the largest hedge fund groups in the world. Raoul came to GLG from Goldman Sachs where he co-managed the hedge fund sales business in Equities and Equity Derivatives in Europe… Raoul Pal retired from managing client money in 2004 at the age of 36 and now lives on the Valencian coast of Spain, from where he writes.” It is his writing we are concerned about, and specifically his latest presentation, which is, for lack of a better word, the most disturbing and scary forecast of the future of the world we have ever seen….
And we see a lot of those.
We don’t know exactly what is to come, but we can all join the very few dots from where we are now, to the collapse of the first major bank…
With very limited room for government bailouts, we can very easily join the next dots from the first bank closure to the collapse of the whole European banking system, and then to the bankruptcy of the governments themselves.
There are almost no brakes in the system to stop this, and almost no one realises the seriousness of the situation.
The problem is not Government debt per se. The real problem is that the $70 trillion in G10 debt is the collateral for $700 trillion in derivatives…
Yes, that equates to 1200% of Global GDP and it rests on very, very weak foundations
From an EU crisis, we only have to join one dot for a UK crisis of equal magnitude.
And then do you think Japan and China would not be next?
And then do you think the US would survive unscathed?
That is the end of the fractional reserve banking system and of fiat money.
It is the big RESET.
It continues:
Bonds will be stuck at 1% in the US, Germany, UK and Japan (for this phase).
The whole bond market will be dead.
Short selling on bonds – banned
Short selling stocks – banned
CDS – banned
Short futures – banned
Put options – banned
All that is left is the Dollar and Gold
It only gets better. We use the term loosely:
We have around 6 months left of trading in Western markets to protect ourselves or make enough money to offset future losses.
Spend your time looking at the risks of custody, safekeeping, counterparty etc. Assume that no one and nothing is safe.
After that…we put on our tin helmets and hide until the new system emerges”
Who is this guy to say that 60% of the voting Irish are so wrong. Is he of the ilk that gave Obama a Nobel Peace Prize after about one year in office. Rubbish !
He recieved a nobel prize he doesn’t decides who gets them.He made an opinion based on his knowledge just because you don’t agree doesn’t make it less valid.
We are fed up of economists. Go away !
Diarmaid without manufacturing,innovation and other wealth creation who pays Doctors Teachers and nurses.
check out what Nick Hanauer (entrepreneur and venture capitalist) has to say about who creates jobs
http://youtu.be/bBx2Y5HhplI
Anyone know how many people Krugman employs in Ireland?
Anyone know how many people Karl Whelan employs in Ireland?
Thats a prerequisite to express an opinion?
He’s only a nobel prize winning economist he would have to bow to superior intellects such as the mensa members in our cabinet
Oh that’s right, I was waiting for that one. To have a valid opinion you must be an employer! Come on people, don’t you know the business community are always right about everything. I say this as someone who has a small business who is perplexed who much extra notice gets taken of people who employ someone. Believe me, someone who can save a life, educate a child, protect a victim or nurse a sick person is a lot more valuable to humanity than someone with grand notions of themselves.
@norman anyone know how many people the 44 “independent” economists employ between them in Ireland?
Exactly Diarmaid. It’s just pure market triumphalism. This ridiculous idea that politics and society must all bow down to the so called ‘job creators’, who couldn’t possibly wrong, and certainly can’t be subjected to any criticism. This Reagan notion of ‘trickle-down economics’, as long as we let the rich get filthy, maybe some in the lower ranks can get a bit too. I mean of course facts and statistics probably discredit this idea a whole lot….but then again, what would they know?
Mrs Mulverhill of course it’s pure coincidence That China and Germany with large manufacturing bases can afford to bail out the USA and Europe respectively .
The European Community lacks the backbone to enforce Community laws without fear or favour. Further details by searching in Google for ‘Windle stops swindle’.
Cheers
The Common Informer
Mattoid. what you are referring to is an Indecon report published the day before the refererendum. It was not an objective survey but a collection of random opinions.
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