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Dublin: 16 °C Monday 20 May, 2013

House prices could fall another 20 per cent, warns Fitch

The ratings agency says a large housing oversupply, combined with growing mortgage arrears, will keep prices down.

The rapid construction of many housing units in urban areas means Ireland - for now - has a housing oversupply.
The rapid construction of many housing units in urban areas means Ireland - for now - has a housing oversupply.
Image: Eamonn Farrell/Photocall Ireland

A GLOBAL RATINGS AGENCY has warned that house prices in Ireland could still fall by another 20 per cent from their current levels, with a large oversupply of housing killing off any major demand.

Fitch says it is assuming a further decline of between 15 and 20 per cent in house prices in Ireland and Spain, and argues that Ireland’s surplus of housing from the peak years – combined with a growing problem of household arrears – could keep prices down.

In Ireland’s case, Fitch says, this is despite a stabilisation of government finances – and driven by legal complications which make it more difficult to repossess a home.

“Despite economic stabilisation, Irish arrears continue to trend upwards. Fitch believes this to be partially driven by policy framework changes,” the report said.

The report comes in spite of reports from property websites Daft and MyHome, both of which believe that while residential property outside Dublin continues to fall, prices appear to have stabilised within the capital.

In particular, the report criticised recent court rulings – particularly that of High Court Justice Elizabeth Dunne, who ruled that people who entered into mortgages before December 2009 but who only entered arrears after then, could not be repossessed.

“Lenders are constrained from large-scale repossessions,” the report said, which could have the effect of “dis-incentivising borrowers from paying their mortgages”.

The report said that in both Ireland and Greece, which has similarly tight restrictions on repossession, “it is effectively impossible for banks to foreclose for considerable parts of their portfolios”.

“In addition, borrowers in arrears are also likely to benefit from significant debt write-offs when personal insolvency legislation becomes effective,” it added.

Recent Troika reports revealed a government agreement to address the difficulty caused by Justice Dunne’s ruling, though justice minister Alan Shatter has insisted that the deal would not increase the overall volume of repossessions.

The report does have some positive news for Irish property, however, noting that the mortgage interest rates had fallen overall and made mortgages relatively affordable – which could begin to stimulate some extra demand for housing.

Read: The Fitch report on residential mortgages worldwide (PDF)

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Comments (64 Comments)

  • The Fitch assessment is a note of sanity. The Irish Independent and the Sunday Independent have been flogging the line that residential property prices are on the up, buyers have missed the bottom of the market, that investors have already managed to flip on properties on a short term basis with massive gains and trying to encourage a recovery in prices as as a result.

    The actual problem was the hyper inflation in residential property values, a function of liberal or reckless lending policies, especially from 2000 onwards. It would be bad for Ireland for a residential property boom to happen again but that will not happen. There are too many adverse factors, some of which have been identified by Fitch.

    The fact is that there was a massive property price bubble, prices were unsustainable, borrowers were and are over burdened with debt, there is a massive mortgage impairment crisis yet fully to hit the banks and the economic context is really bad, especially unemployment, emigration and the inescapable of reduced demand driven by austerity.

    There cannot be a recovery in house prices unless or until the economy actually recover. I must be colour blind because the green shoots are still invisible to me.

    The property tax is another inhibiting factor. Who wants to climb on board a more expensive house acquisition and incur even higher property tax?

    The future and the economic success of Ireland will not be found in a return to property speculation.

    Reply
  • Does this mean that Revenue will rate houses at a less amount I wonder?

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  • how prices in Mayo could easily drop another 20%. And when they do, they’ll be 20% closer to their real value.

    15 years ago, a friend on mine bought a semi-detached, well built and insulated 3bed house for 55,000 pounds. Quality which is still far better than the house bought during the debt tiger. No cheap squeaky timber floors or dodgy tiling and settling cracks etc. That was even at a huge mark up made by the builder.
    55k punts would be around 75kish.

    The shi**te that was being sold here in ’07 ranged from 155k to 230k.

    Reply
    • Scarr 09/01/13 #

      That’s not taking into consideration variations in the additional costs of doing business in the intervening years. Higher Wages, taxes, obligations. Not justifying, just setting out the realities.

      Reply
  • DB 09/01/13 #

    At this rate it will be worth less than 0. I will have to pay someone to take it. Not joking either.

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  • House prices were never worth those prices in 2007 in 90% of places.

    Its laughable now that people were thinking they were getting a bargain if they got a 3 bed gaff for 300k

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  • I got loan approval yesterday. Half of it is for a new 3 bed house, the other half is for the property tax.

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  • Sweet, wont be buying the gaff this year so!

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  • Why isn’t anyone talking about eliminating total-recourse mortgages, as in the USA? This means the lender takes the same risks as lending for any other asset. It means borrowers won’t be landed with unpayable debt for life, so lenders would be much more cautious about lending. I think if we didn’t have full recourse mortgages the property bubble would have been much smaller.

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  • wouldnt it be ironic if the revenue hire the same professional ” auctioneers ” to assess the value of our houses for house tax . I’m assessing my property as valued at minus 30 years of average salary . tax that f####ers

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  • Markets should be allowed to run without government interference, if buyers buy and can’t pay back, they should be allowed hand over the goods, in this case a house, and move on, banks are better equipped to access risk, therefore a greater portion of the risk should be theirs

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  • This tie into the property tax debate that its just unfair unworkable and ill thought out.

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  • Until you can buy a 6 bedroom house on atleast 1 acre within 20 minutes drive of the m50 for less than 350k then houses are still overpriced, and lets not even think about dalkey, dun laoighre, and dublin 2, 4 and 6.

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  • It’s total loonesy the the population of Ireland are begging for the house prices to recover . I can’t see any benefit to it apart from justification of paying a silly mortgage .

    Might be time for people who got silly mortgages and are in serious negative equity to look into the fraud which is factual lending , debt creation based on a signature .

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  • So many houses and apartments but no money being loaned!

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    • Nonsense. Have you even tried??

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    • Not easy to buy a house, very scarce.

      You can have your pick of apartments though.

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    • Anyone who buys an apartment in this country is simply mad! I’m renting one at the moment and its fine for 2 of us for a few years, but I would go crazy trying to raise a family in this dogbox.

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    • That’s more the Irish mentality towards houses though

      It’s standard in the continent to raise families in apartments.

      We are the exception to be honest. The advantage of a small population density !

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    • I think our apartments are much smaller than those on the continent. Certainly, I know that apartments in Vienna are quite a bit larger.
      We didn’t build apartments in Ireland, we built small and pokey shoeboxes with little character and little by way of social amenities, etc.

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    • You must also remember that on the continent apartments come with storage areas and are better planned the they area here. Have yet to see an Irish apartment that has enough storage room in it, I’m not talking about wardrobes and kitchen presses I’m talking about an actual area to items in as one would put in the attic of a house. So buying/renting a house to raise a family really is the only option in Ireland.

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    • Brain, you obviously haven’t been to an average Paris apartment. I’ve seen sitting rooms with 6ft gap between the couch, against one wall, and the opposite wall, dining rooms where the walls are 4 ft from the table, all around!

      Reply
  • House prices over the medium term will always be driven by affordability. When the average house price is at 4 to 4.5 time average income we will get stability. In a normal economy you would expect house prices to keep pace with inflation, no more no less.

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  • Way over priced still, to drop at least 25%

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  • Lovely. Another drop. Our house in West Cork was valued at ?350K in 2007. The selling agent told us last week we’d be very luck to see it sell for ?120K. Our mortgage is higher than that! Another 20% drop and we might as well give the place away.

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    • Paul MC 09/01/13 #

      Kem, what will you do then?
      Rent a place at the same cost as your mortgage?

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    • Don’t understand all the red thumbs here. The house has been for sale for over three years now and every year the price has dropped. We were told last week the house alone is barely worth 90K. The other 30K is on the attached acreage which was valued at 100K per acre at one time. And at the current selling price we’re still not getting any viewings.

      Of course this could also be down to an apathetic agent. We’re on our second one now. They’re all the same down there. They sit in their offices waiting for someone to walk in. No ads, no promotions. And when we ring to speak with him the secretary says he’s not there and will ring back…which he never does.

      We are currently renting in Kildare. Moved here over three years ago for a better job for the husband but the increase in pay only goes to pay the mortgage on the house. We were told the house would sell in six months…that was over three years ago and it still sits. Now we’re paying the mortgage and rent. Scarily enough the rent in Kildare is on a larger house with less property and the rent is cheaper than our bungalow in West Cork on several acres.

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    • Kemberlee, if the house has been on sale for 3 years and it hasn’t sold would you not think that your asking price is somewhat unrealistic??

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    • Is the price unrealistic? We can only go on what’s selling in the region now and what the agent is telling us.

      I’m just off the phone to our agent and he said the only thing selling in the town is a new housing development in the town center. Our house is 5 miles from the town and no one wants to live in the country right now. Especially when they can walk to work. This used to be a satellite town and people commuted to work in Cork and factories around the city. Not anymore. No one can afford the commute.

      And while the region is actually very ideal for getting around between Cork, Kerry and the coast, there’s no work in the town unless you work in a shop, supermarket or similar small town retailer.

      We bought an unfinished house in 2000 for 158K euro and put 50K euro into it to finish it off. It was then valued at 295K euro in 2007 (not including the property behind it which is on a separate deed, bringing that total value to 350K as stated earlier). When the house went on the market in late 2009, the agent we had then said he would sell it in six months for 210K euro. Never sold so we dropped the price to 199K. Had one viewing, no offer. The agent proved apathetic so we changed agents and put the house up for 190K a year later and had a couple viewings right away, thanks to some newspaper ads he put up. Had one looker who offered us 120K euro. The agent said he was just stirring the pot and the offer wasn’t realistic. Apparently there was some guy going around devaluing houses with lowball offers to see how desperate people were to sell. Then in early 2012 we dropped the price to 170K euro and we’re still not getting viewings.

      As I said, I’m just off the phone with our agent who confirms the house won’t get any attention until it comes down to at least 100K euro, and even then, that’s a negotiating price and we’d probably end up with about 95K. Again, this is without the acreage behind the house, which is not substantial but a few acres.

      If there’s another answer or a way to get the house noticed at the price it’s at, I’d surely like to hear it. We’re open to negotiation. We must sell as we’re not moving back to that region. Jobs are here in the south Dublin area so we’re staying put for the time being.

      Reply
  • Ben – 3 times the average wage is an acceptable price.

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  • A few of us on here said 20-30% drop and houses will be an ok price. I hope this happens.

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  • John 09/01/13 #

    Its my opinion that the problem in Ireland is simply because we have a useless government in power. All they are interested in is how much pension they’ll get when they are booted out or on retirement. Its my opinion also that things would improve if we demanded the resignation of this government and put up with who ever takes their place. Sure what does it matter if its only a case that the new brush will sweep cleaner. We urgently need some one else in power. So how about dumping them?

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  • As has been already noted, the Fitch report does not take account of all the variables in Ireland: urban v rural, houses v apartments etc. It’s not much more than a back-of-a-fag-packet job taking fairly pessimistic figures. The Irish data seems to point at a proper stabilisation in decent suburban family homes, and they are getting scarce so prices will slowly rise. The overflow of urban apartments will take longer to stabilise, a lot will depend on the area, ie close to urban singleton professional employment, third-level institutes etc. But apartments and ‘townhouses’ built in smaller towns and celtic tiger mansions built on rural roads will fall further and a lot will remain unsalable.

    Reply
  • Communities are coming together to establish their own valuations, so as submissions will be consistent.

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  • Does anybody know if Revenue will valve your house based on the estimated sales value or the actual value after you deduct the outstanding mortgage?

    In other words if revenue estimate your house at €250k but you still owe €200k to the bank, will they expect you to pay tax based on €250k as opposed to €50k (250-50)?

    I guess they will try for the higher value so as to protect themselves against the 20% fall that is coming.

    Reply
  • To get morgage from AIB .. on 75,000/year… first if you have 3 children saving per month must 250 per child.. also with property tax this will go another 200/month plus your savings of 750/ month that is = 1600/month plus your rent 1000/month as buffer… 2600/month that leaves take home pay of 1050 per month to live on! for 6 months prior to applying for a morgage.. I would suggest not to do it prior to public school fees i.e books etc… of 250-400/ child… November to May Savings buy in March,April May!… PS that’s with 30,000 already in the bank… There is something fundamentally wrong with this tightenned morgage requirements… if they said yes people would have 3bed semi 130,000-1600000 price somewhere in boondocks! Low morgage of 850 and happy days.. This system dictates how you will live and so disapointing! I want a buy a peice of land for a future house but local need apply throughout Kildare… This was fine during the boom but is not acceptable now during the recession…you should be able to buy the land and apply for FFP on the house your going to build rather than if you lived in area for 12 years within 5 miles..or farmed it for 5 years! Either way buying a house or buying a piece of land there are to many BS requirements… This area need reform by Kidare council… it’s going to be here until 2017 with the new plans! Very disappointing Kildare Council. So the option is continue to rent, never own anything or buy the land and move a trailor on it with an acceptable septic tank and well, geni the electricty… raise some chickens, plant some cabbage and hope in 5 years you can build! This is the option the banks and Co Kildare council offers it’s citizens! Unacceptable!

    Reply

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