First of all congratulations to Stephen Donnelly for asking the general public for their input, and so speedily putting a synopsis of the Troika’s answers available for us to see. This sort of engagement with citizens is something that is almost impossible to imagine happening prior to the last election, and I think Donnelly deserves genuine credit for helping change, if only to a small degree, the political culture in the country.

As to the ‘answers’ given by the Troika, I’m angry, but of course in no way surprised. It’s incredible how unwilling these guys are — taking the promissory note non-payment question as our guide — to engage honestly and clearly with the public whose entire macro-economic policy they seem to be formulating using their first-year university economics textbooks as their sole guide:

Tell us why we are morally obliged to pay the promissory note.
Explain to us the precise economic effects of a refusal.
Explain why Greece — and more than any other country — Germany have been allowed massive debt restructuring when unable to meet their obligations.
Publish a précis of communications between the government and the Troika so far in relation to same.

How come these decisions are constantly being made behind our backs, in secret, and even our own government seem afraid to tell us the truth.

It’s this arrogant non-communicative attitude that has destroyed or is destroying Irish people’s faith in the wisdom of further European integration.

An insight if anything,thanks Stephen.

Stephen Donnelly is one of the best if not the best TD in the Dail. At least he gives us the facts as they are available to him. Well done Stephen at least you keep trying for us.

Well done Stephen and thejournal.
And the commenters!
They’re a well polished bunch.
Gave us nothing but shatter.

They didn’t answer much then did they?! Except Shatter is a liar but nothing new there!

Well done Stephen if anything it shows that its the people the general public who are picking up bill must be kept in the dark in order for the extraction to run smoothly
ECB /IMF are only looking out for their friends in the financial world they do not care what happens to the irish people.

Thanks Stephen
stonewalled again…sigh!
Regarding Gavin’s enquiry to the ECB and the Ombudsman
am I right in saying that Michael Noonan confirmed a while back that there were 8 letters in total with 6 being released and the other 2 not for public scrutiny.
If this is the case what does that tell us about the ECB

can the journal confirm that the triochet letters exist?

Well done on attempting to get blood out of a stone. Phil Hogan has now proven to be a liar and should be challenged endlessly until he admits that it was the Government’s DECISION and therefore the tax is not necessary. His resignation as a Minister should be sought for being deliberately untruthful to the Dáil and intentionally misleading the Dáil. The fact that the Troika agreed with the Property tax does not take from the fact that it is being imposed by the Government and NOT the Troika.

In my view, Alan Shatter should also resign for deliberately lying and misleading the Dáil.

These people didn’t impose austerity on us, we (govt we) imposed it ourselves. If they had been brave enough to match statements with facts re bond holders, collect the full sum on corporation tax and get better value for public money spent, there’d be an awful lot less hardship. Instead, hit the vulnerable with broad sweeping cuts rather than doing a proper analysis .

Why do we keep having to make proposals to the ECB about the promissory notes? Only for them to declare “that is unacceptable to us”

How about this tactic, WE ARE NOT PAYING THE PROMISSORY NOTES, if you would like to come to a mutually acceptable agreement in relation to the matter forward any proposals u have to the Dept of Finance.

stephen donnelly i commend you asking the questions on our behalf and keep up the good fight ,maybe next time see if we can get the troika on vincent brown for a little chat ,and see how they answer the questions then ,if they can impose the austerity upon the irish people then we have the right t question them,again kudos to you.

Ffs

What about cutting Kenny’s €200,000 salary? Bet they won’t be recommending that. I said before and I will say it again – put these unelected meddlers on a plane with a one way ticket.

I will ask one question, How many of you commenting would attend a protest if organised? The answer, maybe 2 or 3. I would organise one, but nobody would show up, That my friends is the problem with this country. Stand up and be counted… I mean stand up and take it up the ar** like everyone else. It doesn’t matter what questions the Troika are asked, the relevance of their answers is null. They are liars, Shatter is a liar and we as a people keep shutting up, or comment here, talk about it in a bar etc… That will change nothing… Taking action is the only thing that will create change. Peaceful protest is our right, and it is necessary at this point, so quit whining and do something

Thanks stephen

Is it ethical or socially moral to allow the debs of private institutions all be it banks to be foisted on the shoulders of ordinary working people. I will concede that some people made irrational decisions in respect to finance but banks should have performed due diligence on their loans prior to lending. As for unsecured bondholders, they are professional investors who knew the risks. Who will bail out the ordinay citizens of Europe for corporate negligence and inept politicans who failed to regulate and even to this day have not made adequate modifications to regulations to ensure this can never happen again. I would appreciate a reply from the troika specifally our supposed European partners.

if there is no legal reason why we have to bail out the banks why are we giving away money why? i still cannot get my head around the fact we are GIVING AWAY money!!!

“we’re not Greece” was Kennys mantra, I bet he would want their deal now

So they just waffled their way through the meeting, and wouldn’t answer any of the important questions. Why even bother :(

The answer to your last question is obvious; our is government wants to be “the goods boys” is in The EU Club and is too willing to hand over our money and the EU is just going for the easy money.

“The troika made us do it”. lying spineless, traitors, How the hell are these gobshats representing us, every day they bring more and more embarrassment upon us,

Stephen Donnelly finance minister!

Thanks Stephen for the insight. I’m sorry you don’t represent my constituency, my loss but, at least you’re asking questions and getting some answers that people want!

Anyone else government salary should be performance rated. Enda should get a base of 40k and the public should poll for him to get the remaining 60k based on performance in different areas. Same with the other politicians.

It is such a pity that there are not more people of the calibre and intelligence of Stephan Donnelly in the Dail. The response from the Troika seems to be more honest than any response from the current Government, which blames the past Government (rightly so, but proceeds to implement the policies of the past Government) and the Troika for forcing them to implement policies which are inhuman.

Stephen Donnelly is one TD that i would trust , we need more like him ..

What about the high and unsustainable levels of pay and pensions in the public sector and Oireachtas? Surely, the Troika will continue to be unsympathetic to Ireland’s plight when their representative meets his opposite number in the Irish civil service who is on a multiple of his or her wages?

Well done Stephen. Good work on behalf of the citizens

Well done Stephen. Well, if the trinity are watching: Ireland does not owe this money. It is a private debt between two private companies. The basic rules of capitalism are that you either succeed or fail. Yet this is changed wine banks go bankrupt, with the taxpayer being FORCED to pay against their wishes in the form of property taxes for which they receive nothing in return.

Ireland’s politicians are earning disgracefully high salaries, and the number of TDs should be approximately one quarter of what is there. Yet you do nothing about this.

We borrow €50m a day to fund this madness and other madness like it. Yet you also do nothing about this.

People are retiring in their early 50s with huge gratuities and early pensions. Yet you tell workers in the private sector that they must work until they are 67.

We constantly hear two words: entitlement and increments. Yet you also do nothing about this.

It is a complete and utter travesty.

(I went straight from the Troika to a meeting with David Hall and others on the constitutional challenge to the Promissory Notes, so I’m doing my best on accuracy with a brain that’s pretty stretched for a Friday evening!);
Should of just by passed the troika for all the good it did, consentrate instead on the challenge to promissory note no one will care what the troika think if the challenge is successful.

Good man, Stephen. Such a pity that the Troika are absolute cowards, along with the Government.

Stephen, come on.. what answer did they give for the last question? Who cares if it’s a stock non-answer.. it’d still be more interesting to hear what’s coming out og their mouths in regards to it.. even if it does boil down to ‘no comment’. At least tell us who was answering those particular questions!

I think my suggested question* may have helped prompt your question about the implications of non-payment of the PNs and the “no comment response”. My follow up comment is that a full write off of the PNs must be sought and secured on the grounds that the cost of the bailout of Anglo should not be foisted on blameless Iriish taxpayers, A write off is entirely within the gift of EU central bankers and, while it might result in a temporary loss of face, no loss of cash would be incurred. In fact, the full €30 billion will be effectively written off irrespective as to whether notes are paid or not.

The Government should stop spinning and whining about unfairness. Instead, it should start playing hardball, grow bigger liathróidi and more backbone even at this late stage. Burning €30,000,000,000 of taxpayers money for no return whatsoever makes no sense and is extortion given that the State is bankrupt. In a word “DON’T PAY”.

*”What exactly would the ECB do if the promissory notes and interest are not paid …..”

Our Government is following the politics and economics of appeasement. If it does not work we will be destitute beyond our current imagining.

I will give our previous and current Government one major credit. They sure have the bottle to gamble big with our money.

On the 29September 2008, our Government staggered Alistair Darling and Christine Lagarde with betting the States finance on the Banks having a mere temporary liquidity crisis and now we are gambling by standing at the edge of an economic cliff and saying, ‘I’ll jump, I will. I am pure mad me.”

We are the Paddy during the French Revolution who, when the blade of the guillotine stuck mid his execution, helped his executioners identify the blockage so that they could execute him.

This Government & the previous one staunchly defends the corporation tax rate which is immoral.
However when it comes to standing up for the citizens the do the opposite and insist on paying the debts to cover the promissory note which is simply digitally created money that doesn.t really exist and is an illegal debt in any case. If its not paid nobody goes hungry or loses their home or employment.
If it is paid the country will go bankrupt and the citizens will suffer even more.
Then like most loan sharks the creditors (Banks & Corporations or IMF & ECB) come for the assets, in this case not furniture and home but natural resources.
If its not paid it means the government has called their bluff and you get back to building the country. A country that has great human and natural resources which are not being used in an optimal manner for the benefeit of the citizens.

Blablablablablah puppet state blaaah

Thank you ..

Q: Why is competitiveness not being more thoroughly addressed?

A: The issue is hugely important, and Ireland’s lack of competitiveness in certain areas contributes to high prices for the public.

A big impediment is that anti-competitive behaviour can only be addressed as a criminal activity. This requires too high a burden of proof. You need to be able to take civil actions, as in many other countries, which are easier and quicker to process.

COMPETITIVENESS
or lack off
This we actually have control over and our elected leaders totally ignore and continue to do so along with most of the people it has to be said.
Why do people put up with practices designed soley to extract money from them it costs a fortune and keeps enterprise in a continual quagmire.
Why does a so called Republic need the prodding of the troika to call STOP to this rip off.
WHY????????
Competitiveness = PROFIT ( dirty word ) = JOBS ( nice word ).

Stephen, a chara , at the end of an emotional week, with particular reference to the murder of Adrian Donoghue RIP, and the obvious overwhelming support of 99% of the country for our police force, can I please ask you to acknowledge one point that I would like to make:

How can the informed proportion of our
population ever give our incumbent government credibility at any level, when

a) pensions salaries etc are fas they are.

b) People are not stupid. My constant
comment is: how can we move on
when our intelligence continues to
be insulted via pensions etc for
ex officios etc. I could talk with you
pensions paid from taxes, from
pension funds, defined benefit v
defined contribution, funding
requirements etc, not to forget
The Waterford Glass workers.
I’m tired now, though I will never
forgive how all our ex officio
senior office holders future proofed
In real terms, their tax payer funded
pensions. Some day an enlightened
engaged generation will ask, how
the was this allowed. I am now 53,
and through all my naive years, I
thought we were progressive. I do believe however, that in about 20 years
hopefully gombeen / pump politics will have been consigned to the proverbial.

Could the journal please put up an Explainer article clarifying the responsibilities and powers of the Troika. I feel that many of the commenters on the site are under the impression that decisions made solely by the Irish government were somehow made or dictated by the Troika, when this was not and could not be the case. People are angry, but that doesn’t make their incorrect assumptions any less incorrect. It would help to have an Explainer to get everyone on the same page.

Please tell us what they actually said for the final two questions rather than “no comment no comment….”. They are probably the most important questions asked.

Maybe one of the Quinn daughters could go to their Magical ATMs and withdraw 3 billion euro ( in cash) and all our troubles would be over. Well – until the same time next year. And the year after that ….and the year after that…………

There are TD’s/ Journalists/ Radio/ TV presenters who earn a lifetimes earnings with pension by highlighting flaws and throw a concerned voice on it “the seen to be doing something brigade” and leave it at that and then slip back into the background not to draw too much attention.If we begin to make TD’s pay 70/30 with the 30 paid in bonus phases over 12 months based on performance you’ll start to see a lot more active TD’s out there..the questions above are coca cola questions..”Any chance of the EU valuing people’s lives and not their money in this country”?..

Fair play to Donnelly being accountable , esp. last question. Should’ve done an Iceland. Horrible in some aspects, better overall

We have too many overpaid politicians , union leaders , broadcasters , civil servants , health service executives and until Enda leads by example and take a serious cut we will continue to be uncompetitive in the markets .

At best it is ‘nice’ that Stephen has made this somewhat democratic effort to express some degree of the frustration of The People to the Troika. Truly respectable. However, I am sure he will have felt he needed to be ‘nice and professional’ in how he addressed the other servants of their own organisations and deliver his questions in a manner that could expect a response. All well and good, we are not wild Celtic neanderthals, ignorant of neither the big nor small picture. We are a wise quiet nation.

However, for that significant majority, which has to date remained silent and stoic, Ireland’s ‘faithful believers in the Troika solution’ is now on a sprung coil.

I see no option for the Government other than to dig in hard in a rejection of Ireland’s treatment to date.

Despite the argument of many, I have agreed with Kenny and Noonan’s Troika-appeasement approach. It was critically necessary that Ireland does its utmost in the past few difficult years to play the co-operative citizen of Europe role. The Government had to demonstrate to Europe, but much more importantly, the vast majority of Irish Citizens, that we could take our bitter medicine. We let fools be in charge through the bubble years. We were fools to let that happen.

The Government now must recognise that we are at the end of that ‘good faith appeasement’ path.

We, the quiet majority, has believed that The Troika could see we are a capable civilized international-law-biding nation, We, MOST importantly, needed to see that we are convincingly pressing a critical issue in a dignified manner and gaining an orderly embrace from our European partners.

But it appears now, we are lost.

The next two months will see a massive uprising of deep anger. An uncontrollable urge of everyone in Ireland to reject our so called benefactors.

The reasonable thoughtful citizen will now become the most energised.

We are all Stephen Donnelly’s. But we have been sitting quiet.

Don’t f**k with Ireland much more Mr Troika. Ireland might gladly destroy the European vision in more ways than you might imagine. It is time to show the European Family what is meant by being European. It would be very unwise to unleash the angry shrew and spread European toxicity that is very ready to spread.

Start at the top,cut expenses first and foremost,does the ordinary joe get expenses to drive to and from work?? Abolish that joke they call the seanad,they claimed 2 million last year in expenses(that would pay a lot of property taxes and water charges!
Make all TD’s who are retired claim a normal state pension,they are paid a hell of a lot in their working years to be quite comfortable.
Its only through these measures will people see that an example is being set.

Fair play to you Stephen Donnelly our government needs to grow a pair, keep up the good work.

Its a shame we didn’t get an opinion, on the pay and pensions of politicians. The perks and lumpsum payments they award themselves, why are they untouchable and we are?

The correct text;
This government and the previous government fights tooth and nail
to defend the corporation tax rate which is of very questionable benefeit
to the Irish state & it’s citizens, also it’s pretty immoral.
However when it comes to standing up for the rights of its citizens and
opposing payment of an odious or illegal debt it fails miserably.
This debt is a digitally created sum of money which doesn’t really exist
and non-payment will not affect the livelihoods of anybody on the planet.
However the Irish money that is required to pay has been created by peoples
hard work and industry and is very real, as it is a conversion of labour to
currency.
If Ireland pays. It will impoverish the country and indebt it even more.
The loan sharks will still want to be paid, so like all loan sharks
they then come after your assets
Ireland has 40%of all the Zinc in Europe for example, new gold and oil deposits have been discovered ,forestry & fisheries.
The forestry (already earmarked for Helvetia Wealth AG. Helvetia Wealth is a leading financial services provider based in Zurich, Switzerland. The core business is the provision of Swiss private banking solutions and asset management services)
If Ireland doesn’t pay and it is within its rights as the debt is illegal. The
(Loan Sharks) IMF & ECB will have their bluff called and the debt will be written
off nobody suffers.
Then Ireland can learn from its mistakes and use its great resources of people (home & abroad) and its mineral, oil, fisheries and forestry wealth to build a sustainable economy.

Well done Stephen a good effort but what is the point when they can fob u off on the vital answers
It’s still a rape
of Ireland purely to rob our country’s resources and leave us high n dry
If we are repaying 42%
We don’t need Europe
They really need us suckers
Only honest solution is leave and start printing punts
It will hurt d rich
Thanks
You tried
But if u kill the golden goose ( paye worker) what is left
Emigration and jobs gone
And borrow to enrich a few TDs

Stephen if the banks have 26 billion for distressed mortgages what are hey actually doing with it and what justification have they for increasing interest rates twice last Autumn as well of not passing on the last ECB rate cut? It’s variable rate mortgage holders who are being disproportionately targeted and being pushed over he edge of the cliff

No disrespect to Stephen Donnelly, but all this is a load of crap, we are fucxxd every way , by the Troika , Government and ECB. Let’s see how many people take to the streets next saturday week.

Hi Steve Murphy, I am Adebayo.

Donnelly may agree with a lot of fine Gael policy but on the big calls, he is nit on the sane page.

He is looking at alternative ways of solving our dire situation and is asking the questions they are not allowed bring up or ask. Look into it.

All the best,
APF

Q: What’s your justification for the property tax?

A: It’s the Irish Government’s decision.

There ya have it. The anglo/property tax is not being imposed upon us by the troika, it is being imposed by the government. We should bemind ourselves of this everytime a minister lies to us that they have no choice because its part of the deal.

not very much there. But they are in charge-want higher house tax !

@ John walsh whats your opinion On the government’ wages

You should have asked them what legislation has the IMF tried to have changed in Ireland to make large multinationals less accountable to government and the law – and what measures are they trying to implement to replace local businesses and industries with international ones?

The IMF is about a lot more than loaning money to bankrupt countries. It’s about changing the way business is done worldwide and eradicating local nuances and protection.

Good solid journalism even if the answers are not the ones we want to hear.

ROFLMAO at folks here being surprised when government ministers are revealed to be making up stories ;)

Thank you Stephen, very refreshing to see someone in a position of power will actually voice for us, Irish Citizens.

A certain Capt Kirk springs to mind ie boldly going forth et al, time to reverse gear and grow the economy (subject to external market demand).

I believe there was no letter. The late Brian Lenihan was trying to make excuses when he realised he made a mistake. He tried to blame the ECB. Brian or someone would have had a copy or some evidence of a letter.

http://WWW.OwnOurOil.ie, interesting and are you interested?

What is going on in this country. Why are we such idiots. Work out how much government and local are spending outside the country. Why are we as a nation allowing this to happen. Another note every time we use a card to pay for something up to 3% of every transaction goes to a UK company. Reference e tenders contracts awarded about above.

Ireland (along with other ‘also-ran’ members of the EU have been conned out of their wealth by central banks. The EU project was been completely DESIGNED with the intention of a single currency and credit-fuelled false growth to put whole nations in debt to … and therefore under the CONTROL of … the central banks. I’ll repeat that ….. DESIGNED TO FAIL! Do you actually think that the people who designed and run this system had no idea there would be a financial collapse? I started explaining it to people in 2006…… and I know NOTHING about banking.

Well thanks for trying Stephen. The “no comments” say it all don’t they?

Thanks Stephen, glad I got to vote you in.

Why is our government over looking the fact our oil and gas finds should be nationalised . Trillions of euro just been giving away ????? Why

http://emeraldfist.blogspot.ie/2013/01/drum-stigs-two-point-plan-for-economic.html

Worth reading on the last point Stephen raised, which is the claim that Ireland has paid 42% of the bailout costs in the euro zone: http://economic-incentives.blogspot.ie/2013/02/deficit-debt-and-expenditure-impacting.html?m=1

Not to put too fine a point on it, the original article it’s based on was bad, and the Indo’s take on it was worse. Figures are in the link.

Interesting but you at least should have displayed their responses instead of writing ‘no comment’.

Hate to bring a negative vibe to all the love for Stephen Donnelly but he is an independent TD and can say and ask what he likes. He got no answers. Irish people are so gullible its not even funny. I think I’ll start that political party myself !

Go back to eastenders. You might understand that.

It took him 787 words but this report from Stephen Donnelly tells us exactly nothing new – seems waffle is contagious in Kildare Street,

My reply is below, went into wrong reply.

An independent bullshitter!!!

I don’t like Stephen Donnelly. I never have. I don’t trust him (as a politician).

Tony Blair was going to be Mr Transparent and Mr Justice for the people before he got to power. I don’t know Mr Donnelly well enough to have the measure of the man but once your in power with a merc under your arse and more income than you can spend its very easy to see these “men of the people” turn poacher. This guy seems a little too good to be true.