hear hear Tony – the Community became a Union which seems to be devolving into a plutocratic organisation.

The only thing that’s surprising is that people are surprised that in a crisis countries can and will throw their weight around, especially given the making of the crisis. Ironically many of those calling for us to leave the EU as we are being bullied seem to forget that in the real world Germany and France are always bigger, richer and more powerful than us. It’s the EU that levels the playing field.
It’s like a good friend is stuck for a few quid and you loan them money. All along thinking since they are an adult and they are your friend they will behave like they are an adult and your friend. But it turns out they can’t actually be trusted and have been lying to you all along. Worse than not getting your money back you have to loan them a load more to keep them off the streets. How would any of us behave when we are being basically ripped off?

This is no experiment, we are legally up to our neck in it.

Right on tony there will be blood in the years to come for what been done to european union and country’s in it ..

@Sheila, a most wonderful use of the word Plutocracy, a word I fear is going to become more common in the coming decades!!

thanks Thomas; I do think it’s a very appropriate description :-)

Gary in your scenario about lending your pal cash etc,……. would you expect any other person associated with him to pay back the loan arranged between you & him together with interest? If your pal is that broke, how does that help?

The US federal govt. doesn’ have a problem with states going bust for the simple reason that it would let them go bust.



Why should German train drivers on €40000 bail out Greek ones on €100000?

A comparison between wages in Ireland and Germany will also interesting as you seem to be taking the moral highground. You can perharps give us figures on the differences between German and Irish public sector wages while you are pointing the accusing finger.

The EU are asking the Greeks to stop telling lies about their finances before they give them billions more money.

Is that so terrible?

The poor Greeks where there is currently 40-45 billion euro being evaded in tax. Where only 5000 ish people earn 100k euro a year according to their tax returns, in a country of 12 million. Who have blown other peoples money instead of actually collecting and spending their own. It’s absolutely disgusting all right Réada but not the way you’re suggesting.

Lead the way Réada! ;)

And by scrimping and saving do you mean gambling on debt?! The next time I’m in PaddyPower betting on a horse at a 100/1 and I put a €1000 on him and he doesn’t come in I’m going to march up to the manager and demand my €100,000 and if he doesn’t give it to me I’ll take out a sawn-off and demand it. And he’ll give it to me, because the rest of the gamblers will be there demanding theirs…

If only…

What exactly do you think will happen if we leave the Euro?

No one can say what will exactly happen. However typically we would print the punt and devalue the currency to pay off our debts and face a period of high inflation.

Likewise the bondholders would have to suck up their losses and the markets would stabalise.

The real issue is what is better for our nation? What would work quicker? What is more cost affective?

What I do know is we will not be able to pay off the banks debts in our current setup. Without crippling our people for at least 10 years and up to 20+ before we see positive growth.

You only need to look to the past or in more recent times Iceland for an approximation of what might lay ahead of us if we are forced out of the €.

Just my opinion btw

Don’t mind gary, he thinks he has the answers to everything and wants PROOF for anything that goes against the way he thinks. gary we have said this over and over again. Nobody knows whats gonna happen but I would like to give it a try, because you can be sure we are next in the firing line.

Yup silly me wanting to have facts. The thing is Niamh many very well educated people have a very good idea what will happen and it’s not good.
Ciaran. Iceland is a poor example as we have lost more people from just construction than they have people in the whole country. We overspend by 15-20 billion a year so if we cut off the money flow that will mean an immediate cut of that much. Our new currency would devalue immediately given we’re not a country to be trusted. Inward investment would fall very sharply. Once we start printing the massive amounts of money we need our currency would devalue even further, prices will soar. Dole cannot be paid or certainly not at the levels it is now. All this would put at risk the many multi-national jobs. It seems to me that in your scenario we are guaranteed to go down the toilet with people living in tents on the streets.
So if I can sum up what you’re suggesting, as long we ignore the many pitfalls it will all be for the best.

Hmm I see what you mean about Garry lol I’ve come across this type of troll plenty of times on boards.ie

Gary do you propose you know exactly what will happen? I was giving mere approximations not pure examples of what might or might not happen. Do you honestly think we aren’t headed for the shitter on our current path? You also seem to ignore we are already not trusted in the markets lol. Again instead of nit picking my opinions to support your own focus on what I’ve said. I haven’t been exact in anything yet you seem to suggest I have. Again it’s a matter of looking at what path is the best way forward and the most cost affective. Currently we are on a dark and dreadful path that will only lead us down the same road as Greece. This is our closest reference of what might be in store for us.

We are next no matter what happens or what we say.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt by responding to you and as I’ve said I know your type and there is simply no debating with someone like you. As you need affirmation that you are correct an i am wrong. When really all I am doing is spit balling a few hypothetical scenarios that may or may not be inevitable.

Thanks for the entertainment though lol

I get the impression Ciaran that by troll you mean people who disagree with you, height of arrogance no?
I think that I don’t know what will actually happen. However what I do know is people like you are very poor at explaining how we magically avoid all the obvious pitfalls, some of which I outlined above. It’s underpants gnome logic… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBiSI6OdqvA
You’re very convinced you’re correct so I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you can really back-up what you say. So start your thread on boards.ie http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=99 and I’ll happily discuss this with you. Let us all know when it’s done.

Lmao Gary you are the definition of troll lol. Someone who argues for the sake of arguing. I knew you were a boards.ie head just by your trolling lol.

I never said I was correct you are turning it into who’s right or wrong. Again trolling lol. Niamh was right you must have a reputation at this sort of thing.

I was giving my opinion not a 5 step solution to the European financial crisis lol. Get back into your cave ya troll ;)

I don’t care if you agree with me or not. I don’t want people to but I’m guessing everyone has to agree with you or else you start this kinda rubbish and insults.

It was a comment on an article not a request to get dragged into a bs discussion with a moronic boards.ie veteran troll lol.

Troll troll troll lol

It’s telling that you think someone asking for factual information is a troll. Of course I’m guessing that’s only for people who disagree with you.
I’ve come across people who believe the earth is flat, now they are very entitled to that opinion no matter how deluded it is. Them making this claim has no effect on me or this country generally so good luck to them. However when people claim that we can just leave the EU/Euro and it will all be peachy that does effect me and this country generally. So it’s damn well not okay unless they can support their reasoning. Spreading ill-informed opinion is not going to help us right now.
You’re convinced we should leave the EU, yet you admit you don’t really know what will happen. Nor can you answer even basic questions about the pitfalls. But you’re still convinced… and I’m the troll. Right.

Jasus Gary. Now you’re putting words into my mouth lol

I never said anything about leaving the EU and I never suggested it’d be peachy lol. In fact I’ve said the opposite.

I really don’t care if peeps agree or not. But I can’t stand egotistical muppets like you who just have to be right all the time and go to lengths to prove their own point. At this stage I’m not even sure what your point is? All I can see is a troll looking for an argument and is willing to twist a persons words to support whatever it is you’re trying to do lol.

Read my posts carefully and think before you go off on a troll buzz.

I won’t be wasting any more time commenting on your moronic approach to debating. Stick to the forums where you belong you stupid troll :)

There is no mechanism to leave the Euro, so any country exiting the Euro will probably have to leave the EU. Not to mention that we’d be breaking the agreements our government make with them. You might have forgotten to mention that bit. You said “They’re better off out of the single currency as are we”. But you admit you don’t know what would happen and you still haven’t answered any questions about the pitfalls. You make it sound so easy, we just leave and there’s a little bit of hardship, then it’s all peachy.
You sit there with your smug attitude laughing at the supposed troll, simply because I asked you to explain why you are convinced it’ll all work out. You can’t explain, yet I’m still the funny old troll.
It’s no wonder you don’t post on the Politics forum on boards.ie as anyone making claims has to support their claims. And let’s be very clear, you did make claims. You’d be torn a new one on boards.ie with that attitude, and not because you made claims, or that you don’t have all the answers but because you don’t have even basic answers. I personally don’t give a flying fúck about arguing to be right, but I am sick and tired of reading people in here saying things that they claim are true but cannot support. I’ll give you run-down of what happens in 90% of cases when I ask people questions… silence, name calling, general smugness or side-stepping. Guess what you haven’t disappointed.
You made some claims about me personally too, a stranger on the internet, but I’m the egotistical one. When I asked you to post on boards I knew you wouldn’t, I knew you’d continue with the same smug bullshít.
I know when I don’t know, which is why I don’t give people simplistic unsupported views.

I’m starting to think this Gary chap has vested interests in the this Government and Europe… Something fishy about him…

He still doesn’t know whats gonna happen tho….just like the rest of us. ;)

What would you like to know?
Do I work for the government organisation? No
Do I work for any political organisation? No.
Do I hate bullshít? Yes.

Lmao @ how this is developing.

Hypocritical, argumentative, egotistical, self righteous troll.

Where are your facts backing up your claims?

There aren’t any real facts to support what is happening right now because it’s unprecedented in economic terms. We are in unknown territory and there is a reason for it – it goes against how economics has been taught and managed to date.

I still didn’t say it’d be easy and I never professed it to be the right thing to do. I did say the real issue is trying to figure out what path is the right path to resolve our issues in the most cost affective way.

But of course you fail to recognize what I say and focus on whatever it is you can argue about = troll.

So Gary, where are your facts to support these mechanisms you talk about? Are are you just making more stuff up?

What is happening in Greece has never happened before in EU history.

However there are EU member states who are not part of the monetary union but are still EU members so there is a precedent for that. Again you’re talking out your pie hole.

I really did try not to reply to a muppet but alas you’ve dragged me down to your level.

You need to learn how to communicate and how to have an open mind and understand there are different perceptions to everything. This is the human way.

I’d love to agree with you but to date you haven’t said anything note worthy.

I’ve told you I didn’t present a massive financial plan to save our country. It’s also clear you haven’t a billies what you’re talking about. Otherwise you’d present your case in a balanced coherent way that isn’t deliberately derogatory. You remind me of some of my American friends who are eight wing nut jobs.

So finally stick to your forums where;
A: there is enough room to post massive ideas
B: people who will put up with your bullying
C; a place where you belong.

Thx for continuing to define the term Troll for everyone.

@ Niamh I should’ve listened to ya. But this guy Gary is part n parcel of why so many people have a love hate relationship with Boards.ie of whom i know a lot of their admins. I used to be heavily involved with boards forums etc. It’s a great place to rant, rave and discuss topics of interest. Alas it’s poor deluded trolls like Gary that ruin it for the average poster. He’s a guy who shouts n screams to make a point and when it doesn’t go his way he gets cynical and abusive who likes to hide behind the argument of where are your facts without actually presenting any himself.

So far he’s tried to insult my intelligence, integrity, twisted my words, made stuff up and still thinks he’s right without actually making a point. Sure I’ve responded in kind but that’s all I’ve done is react to a forum bully/troll.

I don’t really take note of him. Perhaps he has no friends in the real world and has lost the ability to communicate because of the hours he spends online trolling for fights spouting his own rubbish.

Ah well it’s fun all the same to think I’m annoying him and finally unveiling what he is TROLL.

He won’t be happy now ciaran. You bad! ;)

Wow…Seriously can you not go one paragraph without having a personal dig. You could have posted all that easily in one comment if you took out all the bullshít ranting. You’re actually accusing me of bullying while having a go at me personally all the way through. I’m actually laughing. You’d be banned now if this was on boards.ie so I can see that would be another reason why you wouldn’t post there.
Again I feel you’re missing the point. I agree with you that we don’t really know what would happen if Greece (or us) left the Euro/EU. Though we can have a very good idea it won’t be good. The thing is I’m not telling people to do anything. I’m telling people to not accept simplistic ideas of what they should do without asking critical questions. I’m saying to them if people cannot answer critical questions then they should be very vary of believing these people. Leaving the Euro has many dangers, even if we don’t in fact have to leave the EU. Your dismissive attitude to these dangers (and generally) certainly doesn’t make me want to believe you.
I’m tempted to tell you more directly what I think but thankfully name-calling by children on the internet doesn’t really excite me enough.

Awe Gary it’s ok like I said I responded in kind to your condescending comments and twisting of my words.

Now you are making sense and I can finally see where you are coming from. But I have never professed to have all the answers. I made a general comment to an article re Greece being forced out of the Euro not the EU. I suggested they would be better off out of the Euro not the EU. Essentially they will be left with no other choice and invariably we will be next in Germany and France’s crosshairs.

Again I didnt say it’d be easy but you know what it may be or may not be the lesser of two evils. No one is in a position to say what exactly is best. All we can do is respond to what is happening. The current EU response has never happened in history. We are in a unique economic problem. traditionally when a country is broke they devalue and print more currency. And as you say there are detrimental consequences in doing this but better the devil you know and all that. What the EU are doing is crazy in economic terms, the figures and staggering and the amount of money being thrown away is financially insane and has proven not to work. Therefore the only other choice is the tried and tested solution of printing your own currency and going through the pain until you gain positive growth and a stable fiscal policy. This has been the way since capitalism was born. Maybe at that time Greece will be allowed to apply to rejoin the currency. But there is no evidence or precedent in the EU that suggests Greece will Have to leave the EU something you suggest I’m suggesting.

So like I said I’d be happy to debate it with you but I will not and can not debate with you the way I’ve seen you communicate so far.

To be childish for a mo, you started with the condescending manner and twisting of my words. Leave that behavior at the door and we can waffle away. But if u don’t, don’t expect me not to reply in kind Gary.

Take care

Gary, then why would you face disciplinary action from your employer if you were found to be non compliant as stated on another article?
That bullshit that you hate so much is oozing from your pores!!!!

Yeh and the Irish were honest about our debts too lol get real.

Haha who talks about a racist rant? Where are you coming from? ;-) If you would read carefully you would see that it s about facts and the pages is about discusssing and expressin your opinion and if you can not take that and even insulting I guess you have no place here!

Well said Chris, I have a Greek friend who says that non payment of taxes is a national pastime and the only people paying them are working for foreign companies. He also says that the Politicians will say anything to get the bailout and then start the merry go round again !

yes james that s it. they will lie, cheat, everything to get the money and nothing, absolutely nothing will change. i loved living there but actually to BE ABLE to live there HELL!!!! i think it s absolute nonsense to give the money!

Public opinion in Germany seems to have swung in that direction. Initially the Germans were all for helping them out but now they just see it as a money pit. It’s probably best for everyone they go but it’s really going to be nasty getting by in Greece in the short-term.

Yes it was always difficult as normal citizen to get by but now…. and the politicians take the responsibilty. Well Greeks were always quick turning to violence. I saw quite a few times while living there, school children violently protesting and shutting down a school. And we talk about 10-12 yr olds….
Even me being German and not being a fan of the german attitude I understand them getting annoyed. Pumping money in a barrel without bottom and then the Greeks insulting the Germans and burning german flags. Feck it I understand if they dont want to pump money there… anymore. And also the Greeks have a very strong nearly sick kind of patriotism they really never wanted the Euro they always believed in their Drachma, which, I remember, was weak but it was like gold to them ;-) I was there when the Drachma changed to Euro! Politicians were hyper, the Greeks were not really…..

Your compassion is astounding Kerry. And as for your racist rant. You’re going to fit right in here. You’ll always find a lot to agree with you. Kick Greece when it’s down why doncha. Disgusted!

*** now at the right place*** ;-)
Haha who talks about a racist rant? Where are you coming from? If you would read carefully you would see that it s about facts and the page is about discusssing and expressing your opinion and if you can not take that and even insulting I guess you have no place here!

I see “love and light” has gone from your comments Kerry. Peace!

Think you should get back to your meditation mat Kerry.

hahaha oh Réada Quinn oh Réada Quinn hahaha ;-)
wish you all the love you seem to need hahaha