Well said Chris. A significant and thoughtful post.

Thank you Chris 

Very well said Chris its a NO from me.

How can you vote Quimby? He released Sideshow Bob from Prison- a man twice convicted of attempted murder! I could never trust a man soft on crime like Quimby. That’s why I’m voting for Side Show Bob.

Glenn Quagmire for President…

Excellent!

Yaawwwnn! Go to bed and stop worrying your little head about it. It will be what it will be….

Hardly surprising from a shower that would sell their own country down the river.

“The negotiations went downhill from there. On one side was the European Central Bank, unabashedly representing Ireland’s creditors and insisting on full repayment of bank bonds. On the other was the IMF, arguing that Irish taxpayers would be doing well to balance their government’s books, let alone repay the losses of private banks. And the Irish? On the side of the ECB, naturally.
“In the circumstances, the ECB walked away with everything it wanted. The IMF was scathing of the Irish performance, with one staffer describing the eagerness of some Irish negotiators to side with the ECB as displaying elements of Stockholm Syndrome.
“The bailout represents almost as much of a scandal for the IMF as it does for Ireland. The IMF found itself outmanoeuvred by ECB negotiators, their low opinion of whom they are not at pains to conceal. More importantly, the IMF was forced by the obduracy of Geithner and the spinelessness, or worse, of the Irish to lend their imprimatur, and €30bn of their capital to a deal that its negotiators privately admit will end in Irish bankruptcy.
“Lending to an insolvent state, which has no hope of reducing its debt enough to borrow in markets again, breaches the most fundamental rule of the IMF, and a heated debate continues there over the legality of the Irish deal.”
Indo

well said ,a point that seems to escape mainstream reporters is we only needed a bailout because the previous cowardly government agreed to pay 100c on the Euro of unsecured bank debt, yes? Now we would only need a future bailout because of the present showers capitulation to pay mostly German and US bondholders .Ok my point we owe billions to bondholders who are mostly banks, the same banks who will be buying future government bonds ie they convert unsecured debt into secured government debt .Its scaremongering to suggest Ireland cannot re-enter the bond market, bank will jump at the bond as they will get the money straight back

don’t forget to bring your pen tmw because they will only give you a pencil for some reason or another(the big rubber comes out of bag)

True – the answer to the question of whether Europe could leave Ireland out in the cold is at best a maybe.
It is only speculation on your part that it would be otherwise.
The Europeans could well decide to punish Ireland for not ratifying the treaty – what then?

“leave Ireland out in the cold” – you mean, refuse to lend us the money to pay them back with?

Punish us by not letting us pay up to 11 billion into a fund so we can borrow 50 billion from it, rather than not have to find 11 billion and borrow the same money on the markets at a higher percentage point. Oh, the humanity…won’t somebody please think about the bondholders children…

I mean deny us access to the ESM. Don’t forget that just the fact we have access to the ESM will increase investers confidence as they know there is much less chance of a default and they’ll get their money back

The question of access is manufactured blackmail. Now I know a certain element don’t have a problem with our people being blackmailed if it helps their own personal agenda, but I and a lot of others do.

It is not manufactured. It Is clearly written in the treaty that the ESM is only available to states who ratify it. To state otherwise is just not true

If Europe left Ireland out in the cold they would be completing the largest self-inflicted nasal amputation in history by a country mile.
Charles Dallara has valued the cost to Europe of a Greek exit/default at approx. €1.25 Trillion. Fact is due to european finances complex web of liabilities it is impossible to say how much it would cost or where the economic damage would end. The cost of an Irish exit/default would be in same ball park.
“The head of the IIF, Charles Dallara, says a Greek exit from the Euro would be “somewhere between catastrophic and armageddon”
Businessweek

Dave, can I ask if you watched Newsnight on BBC 2 this evening. It was all about the the Eurozone crises, Greece and Ireland and whether or not the euro as a currency will fail. If not it is available on BBC iplayer. Krugman was Paxmans guest and its well worth a watch. Krugman is very clear and articulate in explaining why the Fiscal Compact is a very bad idea.

Gary Crowley – if your around you might want to watch it aswell. Who knows maybe his arguments will change your mind.

No anne, would have liked to but am at work. Will try and watch it later though

There was no question of access to the ESM for ireland until it became apparent the Irish people would have a vote on the fiscal compact. The blackmail clause was then adeed to the treaty at the last minute dave, a manufactured threat to coerce a yes vote. This is just the facts. You want to dispute this, take it up with Stephen Donnelly, one of the few good men in Irish politics, who referred to it as gun to the head diplomacy.

We dont get access to ESM if we ratify this crap, we get the right to apply to the ESM and wait in line while hoping that they won’t say feck off and wait till we see if we need to give the spanish 400 billion and the italians whats left of it. You yes voters are the biggest idiots this country ever produced. Open your ignorant eyes.

Tomorrow you yes crowd are going to commit the biggest act of treason since Dermot McMurragh decided to invite his pal Henry II over for a straightener witn his rivals, and you can’t even defend your reasons for it, because your sheep who believe everthing your self serving government tell ye. Remember to tell your grand kids what you did.

Jayzuz martin, chill out man. It’s a fiscal treaty not a declaration of war.

No voters will be able to say how they put their country at risk because of xenophobic paranoia that the dastardly Germans are out to get them.

David , kan ich sache erste, das fur sich das ich habe im deucthland fur twei yahre gewont , und ich glaube ich weis was die deutche luete ist glike. And they are still uninformed just like you and just like u they dont ask qusetions they believe what they’re goverment tells them without question.

Or they believe a lot of paranoid lies and half truths like you Martin.

Oh writing German doesn’t prove anything

David. I dont’t believe half truths if I did I be voting yes to-day. I question everything, takes a bit of time but its worth it ;-)

They do not chucky, The decideds are 60-40 with a third of voters undecided, meaning for every 15 people polled 6 are a yes, 4 are a no and 5 are undecided. Its been spun so the nos and undecideds won’t bother putting the effort to vote cos they think its a wasted journey. Nothing is further from the truth.

Chucky – Cork 96 FM did a text survey. Aprox 2200 people responded and the result was 81% NO 19% yes. Dont think anyone should be counting their chickens just yet. Well except for FG as they have the biggest chicken of all in Edna Bok Bok Kenny.

George Orwell couldn’t have written that ad any better

Vote yes and u’ll be skyping ur kids

I’m sure the signatories got paid. Shame on any that did

Good man shayno, keep an eye out for inda who’ll be getting his no balls rolling around the same time….

Roll on Friday for the results.

If we vote yes, I’m sure you will enjoy funding the Spanish bailout.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/may/20/ireland-second-biggest-bailout-donor?intcmp=239

That’s not a very good poem Censored!

Have to agree with you this once Ignoreland

On your original comment that is – not on censoreds.

Ignoreland, i am sure we won’t need to wait for another referendum vote to cross paths… I for opne don’t intend relenting on my appraisal of this Governments performance any time soon. And something tells me you won’t give up your unwavering support of them either ;)

Same can be said of No voters

Off topic – we have the only flag that doesnt have red or blue on it in the finals!

We gota get those self serving clowns out of lenister house, before they serve their full term, and allow the ecb to have their way as they said during the week “and put Ireland into recievership. “. Thanks for the bb2 tip , watchin paxman now.

….with every box of cornflakes.

Never keep him locked up.

Don’t you mean SHOOT phil hogan?

The very best of luck to your wife tomorrow with her surgery and to you with your own visit… I will also be voting NO anyway best of luck

The very best of luck to you both tomorrow at the hospital…. And I too am voting NO and will continue to vote No till my family have the choice to work and live here in their homeland Ireland

Fair play to your wife and you D Sword. It’s an honourable thing to be willing to risk dying for your country and her people. Ye are true patriots.

Damn.. I missed it. Did the Beeb put any particular slant on the whole thing? Feckin’ Abie Philbin Bowman was on when I tuned in!

Martin try BBC iPlayer. If its not up yet it should be by tomorrow. I recorded it cause I was hopping into the bath when it came on, but from what I could hear of it, his reasoning was flawless. Last Greek PM was on aswell and he told Paxman off for being disrespectful to the Greek people in his introduction to the programme.

Krugman was excellent on Newsnight.

Made mincemeat of a Tory & a bankster who were peddling the ‘austerity’ mantra which has wrecked the UK economy & done nothing to improve their debt position, exactly as predicted by Krugman & others.

Reality is exposing this neo liberal ideology for what it is – a fraud perpetrated for the interests of the financial & wealthy elites.

The tide is turning finally on ruinous policies of the ‘authorities’.

Ireland should not be voting to agree anything at this point. Vote NO.

Well that’s who we voted in, maybe sinn fein and people before profit is the answer, they seem to have all the answers.

Gosh you didn’t need to wait for a victory for that.

Vote No!

U and the other sheeple can do that. I’m voting no

Scrap for someone who seems to believe a no vote is the best way forward you seem to do an awful lot of name-calling and general spamming. Perhaps, and maybe I’m just crazy here, you could just deal with the issues.

Don’t be an

That? From Gary the serial poster?

This treaty is turning into a fight between the people who want to stand up for their country and their peoples suffering and those who have irish passports and who stand for nothing but personal gain. And you guys have never beaten real us yet.

Subtract the word real from above….. Cheers