So Aisling – why don’t you become a banker or a politician?

nothing stopping you. Just need to get off your arse.

Makes perfect sense to me!

im not sure i fully agree although that sounds almost right. as someone who worked weekends during my college years, the extra euros i made on sundays made a huge difference to me and made working on top of studying feel bareable. if i was going into work on a sunday to earn the same bare minumum wage i did on the saturday i think i would have felt pretty bitter about it.

I disagree with you not paying a premium, but I admire your honesty. That is admirable.
I hope all your employees are a bit grumpy and unhappy, with their pay, as it shows they are honest and not fleecing your takings or stock.

Were you on mimimum wage for the 12 years? My experience of working in bars and retail is that most barmen etc were paid a bit more because they worked saturdays and sundays, something similar to factory workers getting shift allowance, I also know that JLC rates and terms and conditions were won by workers, not because of greed , but because they were been screwed by employers! All this is part of a campaign to drive down the wages of all workers …employers want everone on minimum wage! they don’t want workers they want slaves! Proof of this comes from the IT guy who commented above, a skilled worker on 4 euro more than minimum wage, and if you want further proof check out this link http://careers.guardian.co.uk/careers-blog/unpaid-internships?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter, where employers will soon be charging us fees to work. yes some well to do people like Bill Cullen want us to work for nothing to gain experience but I don’t see him giving out his books or cars for nothing!!!!!!!

I had a good laugh reading the comments here today, I’m certainly agree with Paul Lanigans comments below. Firstly I treat all my staff as best I can, they get a fair pay, they get good holiday time, paid staff night out on a regular basis. Instead of my staff fleecing me they actually help me bring people into the pub and organise several events nights, which they are all looked after for. I carry out a stock check every 4 months, for account reasons not checking on my staff, andover the past year the stock has never been down. So are my staff happy, I would definately say yes.

To answer Gerard Murphys question, I was on minimum wage for nearly 3 years before I decided to go away and get more qualifications in various areas of the hospitality leading to an increase in pay and positions on several occasions. I got my increase because I worked to get it. I knew when I entered this trade that I would have to work unsociable hours, weekends, bank holidays and christmas, easter etc etc, I accepted that. People who can not except that have no buisness what so ever being apart of this industry. Can you tell me what the diference is between working on a sunday or a tuesday???? You all seem to be socialists on this website so religious services on a sunday should not bother you, sunday is just a normal day. No diference.

Now as for employers worrying about their yacht and not paying the staff i would say that is typical shit for a typical socialist. I certainly do not own a yacht, for that matter i dont even own a car, why? I can’t afford it, but when I can I will. I am in buisness to make money….Simple! I am certainly not a socialist and I dont believe I should devide my wealth that I have work god damn hard for with anyone else. I will do two things 1) I will look after the people fairly who help me acheive that wealth, hopefully giving them the incentive to go away and make their own wealth, 2) I will continue to contribute to charitable causes and will continue to organise events in my pub for charitable causes.

And to all our socialist friends that dis agree with me think about this, next time you go for a pint in the pub, you are lining the owners profits along with the profits of the major international brewers….u still going to drink?

next time you use milk in your tea you are lining the pockets of the big shareholders at kerry group or similar big corporation

how about when your reading this comment you will say oh fuck, i just give dell or acer a shit load of money for this computer / laptop, therefor lining the pockets of the big multi nationals

You promote capitalism and corruption in everyday life, nothing you do will ever change that……so take my advice, grab an ice cold beer, go outside in the sun, chill, relax, enjoy it. :)

You worked in a bar for 7 years?
Are you the Owner?

Do you remember a time when there was no Sunday trading?
I think, and I stand to be corrected, that the majority of extra payments for Sunday hours stems from this change in our shopping habits.
With respect to factories they still receive a shift allowance regardless of days worked, would that be correct?
For some reason I think this entire debate centres around the retail/service industries, so factories may not be relevant for this.

Brian I worked in a Cooked bacon factory for almost 8 years… I got a 30% shift bonus on flat hours worked ie if i worked 40 hours i got 30% of 40 hours pay if i worked 60 i got my overtime but all hours were at 30% of my flat rate… I worked 12 hour shifts 3 to 4 days a week

Laura, thanks for the insight. So regardless of the day you worked, Mon, Thurs, Sun etc, you were on the same rate of pay anyway? That is why I was thinking that factories and the like are not so relevant to this topic, as it seems to be just the retail/service industry that is being referenced the majority of times.

Basically the 30% shift bonus was given bcos we were working unsocial hours
…however working overtime mon to fri 8am to 12 middnight and 8am to 12 midday on a sat was paid at time and half, the rest of the time was paid at double time :)

So instead of fighting against high insurance, rents etc, lets just screw the lowest paid yes? typical right-wing nonsense

What industry do you work in?
I know lots of places that promote hourly paid workers to managers, put em on a salary, and squeeze extra work. No overtime to pay, no increases, works out cheaper for the employer…………
They can get 60 hours out of you for the same price as 40, someone paid hourly will cost them another 20 hours pay.

Okay, pardon my ignorance here, but if you get “below minimum wage”, why aren’t you informing the National Employment Rights Authority? I mean its called minimum wage for a reason after all.

I’m not trying to be smart, but it seems to me you’re getting royally screwed if you have to work so much and are not even getting minimum wage.

Because seeing as our minimum wage is so high here, some employers employ staff on rates far below it. And if the staff complain, they know that they’ll get their hours cut.

From http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/enforcement_and_redress/victimisation_at_work.html :

Minimum wage

The National Minimum Wage Act 2000 prohibits your employer from victimising you for exercising your rights under the Act. If you are due a pay increase under this Act you may not be victimised by your employer, for example, by a reduction in your hours of work.

Stratospheric, so it is Fiachra.

Because people in certain sectors get paid ridiculously low, and tend not to have the same benefits that other sectors provide

Clearly working in the IT industry has a higher income than working in the service industry. You have clearly done well for yourself so don’t diss others who depend on that extra income every week to survive!!!!

Not that its anybody’s business, but my wage woks out at €12.70 an hour before tax. Not exactly a high wage and well below the average industrial wage.

Thats Bull JimBob……you know it and Most people here know it.
€ 12.70 p/hr Gross?
Wait a minute are you a computer cleaner?
If not you are being screwed.

That’s the truth Brian, believe it or not. Wages on the bottom rungs of the ladder in IT are nothing to rave about.

I just cant believe it Jim bob, Its very low for a skilled worker. I know lots of cleaners/security/supermarket/ retail workers that earn more than you an hour.
I didn`t mean to put you or your rate of pay down, but perhaps you should show your boss you deserve more money.
A few buddies of mine are in IT and they are getting €20-25 p/hr, and one of them even averages out at about €80.

Senior engineers may earn that type of money, not me unfortunately. I’m planning on emigrating within the next few months anyway so I haven’t bothered looking for a raise. I was glad to get in the door when I got the job a couple of years ago to be honest, so I’m not complaining.

Brian: I don’t think JimBob is dissembling. If you look at the bottom rung of the ladder in IT, we’re talking call-centre/help-desk work which requires no qualifications, then wages are around 20-23 k per annum which matches pretty well with what JimBob is describing.

You’re quite close there Aoife, a little bit more advanced than that. A mix between 1st and 2nd line tech support, so I earn a little more that the average phone jockey :-)

I hear you Aoife, and I believe Jimbob.
Hey JimBob, if you are young with no ties, why not, get out of here for a few years, build up some money, have an elongated working holiday. You`ll have fun, gain great experience, and come home with a few bob in the bank. You can trust me on that one.

That’s the plan Brian. I’m just trying to save enough money to do that. When I do, I’m gone. Its sad in a way as I never thought I would be forced to leave the country to live the kind of life I want, but hey, such is life. I’m sure I’ll enjoy it.

good luck with everything.

Then get off your backside and get some qualifications that employers value.

I’m a qualified teacher Paul. There’s a recruitment embargo at the moment, that makes it impossible to get a job. I can’t afford to put myself through another 4 years of college. You have no idea about my situation, so shut your mouth you knob.

Hear Hear JimBob

It may be worth the pain of going back to do an accelerated course , for example a year postgraduate, just to have the paper in your hand. I work in the Netherlands with Philips and they are crying out for IT workers here. Its a great start to make and for someone who wants to specialise in certain systems such as SAP the possibilities are endless with regard to earning potiental and experience!
Good luck my friend

Hi Paul,
From the tone of your comments I wouldn`t like to work for you, you sound very ill mannered. I`ll put it down to the stress of you trying ride out this recession and endeavoring to ensure fresh/repeat business for your self employed business.
You`re so proud of your own business that there is not even a mention of it on your FB page. Maybe you should advertise a bit more. Take advantage of the social network medium to promote your business.
I wonder if any of your staff can approach you with ideas?
Not everybody who seeks fair pay is a card carrying communist.
I mean why pay more to your staff, as they will only be doing the same amount of work anyway?

Usual rant from the right wing, fyi the debate is about JLC’S and wage rates and concerning the case where a group of companies got the JLC system overturned in the courts. Usually right wing people rant about “ignorant left wing socialist CRAP “, but the facts don’t bear that out… seen as the group that initiated the attack on low paid workers were made up of Supermacs, highly profitable Irish companyhttp://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2010/1217/1224285738563.html, Subway, billion dolar global industry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subway_(restaurant), Abrakebabra another large companyhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrakebabra, all amlgamated in a group that has 200 members that own between them 600 outlets http://www.qsfa.ie/about.asp, hardly the type of people that are “the typical business owner is at his/her kitchen table doing his books and wondering how the hell he’s going to make ends meet.”btw definition of a capitalist/entrepeneur/business man …. some one who has everthing…not happy, wants more and hell bent on sharing as little as possible with anyone else

The definition of a socialist is someone who believes in ending exploitation, your right in saying most socialists have nothing, a position shared by the majority of the people. The neoliberal apologists will say that the
working classes dont work hard enough or something equally condescending. But the workers do work hard but because the factors of production are controlled by the few the many suffer. Now for too long this has been the situation in Ireland, the workers have been pacified by big business, the state, the church etc. But make no mistake, the day of reckoning is coming. The day when the worker will no longer settle for his crumbs. You can call me what you like but conditions will force the workers to action, they will take what is theirs, and there will be true equality in this nation and Europe, hopefully the world. To paraphrase a great socialist leader, we are moderate, we only want the earth.

@Brian – When you assume……..

FYI – my business is doing fantastic. Year on year growth for the past 5 years. AND I have ensured that my employees NET pay has increased year on year despite the recession. No one is even close to min wage. No need for JLC’s. That’s why I have had ZERO turnover of staff.

The reason is simple. I hire good people who have a great work ethic. There are no fix hours in my business. I give twice the statutory holiday entitlement. I never count the days my staff take. We all work on goal time, not clock time. That said nobody works more that 35 hours per week. There is no clock in or out.

My staff never need to look for fair pay – I give it to them because I don’t want to lose them.

My FB page is not for business and I don’t need to advertise. My business website is http://www.sandler.ie. My blog is http://www.paullanigan.com. My business FB page is sandler.ireland – shouldn’t be hard to find

My point is simple. If you want to do well in this economy stop looking to your rights. That’s a recipe for resentment. Find out what people are willing to pay good money for and then work hard at excelling at that.

The valuable, relevant and hard working will never want for work.

I’m not right wing. I just hate whingers you are too lazy or stuck in their own comfort zone to get off their ass and do what it takes to take control of their life. If that means moving abroad for a period, then that’s want you do.

@ Gerard – so Supermac’s is profitable. So what. The reason it is profitable is that Pat McDonagh put everything on the line to start the business and he took risks with his own savings. If you want a piece of his profit, start your own business.

How many people with degrees in subjects that are of value to employers are on minimum wage. Look inside yourself before you look to profitable companies to bail you out because you made bad choices.

BTW: your definition is a capitalist is spot on. SO WHAT. You don’t hear them bitch and moan. They get on with it.

Here here, I reckon if all Sunday staff went on strike, businesses would soon see how cheap the premium pay actually is

Do you work Sunday’s? It’s just another day. I don’t particularly like working on Friday’s but I don’t get paid mote when I do. Standards hours and overtime and away you go… Don’t get me started on salaries…

Hallelujah!

What pub do you own. I’ll buy you a pint from my capitalists stash :-)

Good point Eoin, but if it boils down to an employer meeting his payments for his yacht/car/ etc and you meeting your rent, I think the yacht will win everytime.
There is nothing wrong with an employer paying himself well and having luxurious items around him, please don`t take me up wrong on that.
It seems to be that as a society in general we are trending towards a return of Laissez-faire capitalism, and in some cases a return to 6 year olds going down pit.

Sorry “Eoghan”, forgive my misspelling