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FINANCE MINISTER Michael Noonan has insisted he remains optimistic about the prospect of securing a deal on the IBRC promissory notes ahead of the repayment due in March – saying reports that a deal has collapsed are “premature”.
Speaking in the Dáil this evening, Noonan said he was still working “to try and achieve a solution”, acknowledging that it would be “very difficult” for Ireland to make the €3.06 billion repayment due in 59 days’ time.
The minister said it would be “not possible to give guidance on the timing or potential outcome of discussions”, as doing so could threaten any progress Ireland had made in its talks with the ECB on avoiding the current system will which see €3.06 billion repayments every year until 2023, and smaller repayments until 2031.
But he added: “I remain confident that an agreement can be reached” – but drew the line at simply refusing to make the next repayment on March 31, asserting:
The Irish government is not going to default.
Noonan was speaking in response to Sinn Féin’s finance spokesman Pearse Doherty, who had sought clarity from the government following weekend reports that the ECB had rejected Ireland’s preferred option – to issue a long-term bond in the place of the promissory notes.
“How come this preferred option has been rejected?” he asked. “How come we made a proposal in the first instance when we weren’t sure first that it was going to fly at the ECB meeting?”
Doherty demanded assurances that an alternative suggestion proposal would be tabled at the next meeting of the ECB’s governing council, due in eight days’ time, pointing out that there were only four meetings of that council left before the Irish repayment was due.
Noonan said Ireland had been “working carefully to build an understanding and confidence around a set of proposed transactions designed to deliver for Ireland, and that work is ongoing” – before blasting Sinn Féin’s stance on the issue.
“The underlying position is that Sinn Féin’s political strategy is to build a political movement in the hope that the government will fail, that the economy will decline into a worse state than what it was when we inherited it, and that people will turn to Sinn Féin to rescue them,” he said.
The alternative position is default… have a look at what’s happening in Argentina, even last week [...] since they defaulted twice, and you’ll see why default is not an option.
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Is a default if the debt is not legally owned by us the citizens of Ireland? I think not! This debt was not ours to pay, Anglo was quite happy to privatize its profits over the years and now that they are bust they want to socialize the debt. Private bank debt is not public exchequer debt.
@Thomas. Did you hear about that bank guarantee thingy a couple of years back?
Did I miss the referumendum on bailing out banks…. or was it back room deals in the middle of the night ?
What was done was illegal, immoral and going forward is unsustainable.
@tom- we elect Governments to make these decisions. We don’t always elect the right Governments but that doesn’t make their decisions illegal.
David Hall of New Beginnings has a challenge to the “note” going through the courts,that will decide if the debt is lecal or not.Not the word of a politician.
It is illegal when the government is being advise by people from Goldman Sachs, who had gambled heavily in the Irish banks that needed to be bail out.
@theycallmeJay- no, I’m pretty sure objections to who you consulted in your decision making process doesn’t render something illegal.
@theycallmejay- I’m pretty sure belated objections to those selected to advise on a decision making process has no legal standing. That’s the same as you hear from people with mortgages who can’t pay them back….”but the bank gave it to me”. Well they would, wouldn’t they?
@norman- you’re right. It will.
Its an Odious debt which means if the debt wasnt produced whilst supporting the citizens then by international law we dont owe it but this disgracefull goverment have insisted that we pay it
Vincent nice to know we can agree sometimes.
The EU /iMF need stable governments in place in order to screw the last drop they can from Ireland. Portugal, Spain and Italy. They know they risk tipping countries into serious revolt if they push austerity too far. Therefore they will only make concessions if there is serious revolt against cuts…and I mean people on the streets. If we just sit back they , will continue on. Its time to get serious.
Every member of Fianna Fáil should be ashamed of the mess they have left the Irish citizen in.
True Ciaran but don’t forget FG/Lab are implimenting FF’s policies that they derided when in opposition.
Ha ha Noonan, ye poor naive sod…..Ye can’t make deals with loan sharks. They just give ye more time to pay, add heaps of interest on and then break your fingers if ye can’t pay!
There is nothing naive about that snake….He knows there will be no deal, but he’ll still insist on making a fool and mockery out of the Irish public by stringing us along with this farce…sure what does he care?
Noonan ain’t chasing nothing the size of him
Noonan you incompetent fool we are not getting a deal you have been personally told so,stop lying to people.
He might be right on Ireland not defaulting because he is screwing every cent from the average person but however you can only bleed for so long until it runs dry
@Stevie, Noonan is no fool. He is simply following orders from our debt masters.
The tone of the government representatives has changed fiercely in recent days. We.are.stuffed.
@malcom…stupid comment
Seems Reuters stole the march on this lot just asthey also stated the IMF was coming even as Noel Aherne was dening it.Pity Irish politicians can’t be truthful with the people.I won’t call it spin,lies are lies no matter who is uttering them.
No one gets anything for being a pushover or a nice guy. Put the payment of the promissory notes to a referendum and let the people decide
Of course you are noonan,of course you are… And if my granny had **** she’d be my grandad.
The deal Is dead? long live the deal
Leave the EU,Default is or only hope of getting out of this hole, devalue and get our punt back, up our export to the world, attract foreign companies, lock up bankers noonan
Yes. Because foreign companies love doing business in bankrupt countries outside the EU who have defaulted on their debts. They’ll be lining up.
Vincent, tell us, how does the rest of the world that is outside the EU do business?
That’s just dumb.
@Jason- Poorly. That’s how countries outside the EU with a tiny domestic market and no natural resources do business. Catastrophically. That’s how bankrupt countries who have recently defaulted and who are outside the EU with a tiny domestic market and no natural resources do business.
No natural resources Vincent??? Tell me what the hell is Providence and Shell doing out in the Atlantic at the moment.
Looking for Spongebob is it?
@joseph- you’re right. It’s like we’re Saudi Arabia.
what countries have recently defaulted? Iceland seem to be doing quiet well by all accounts and Greece are still in the EU.
The EU/ECB are just laughing at us at this stage. Why would they do a deal when our simpering idiots will do whatever their masters tell them? Noonan couldn’t negotiate his way out of a paper bag. He’s spent the past 2 years bluffing and shouting down anyone who questioned what he was doing in case they jeopardised his “highly complex and technical discussions”. He failed last March to get a deal (he paid in full, just borrowed the money and spun the people blatant lies about getting some sort of deal) and he’s failed again now.
We shouldn’t be surprised, though; the man’s career has been defined by failure (and supreme arrogance). He was a disaster as Minister for Justice; his behaviour in Health and treatment of women infected by tainted BTSB blood products would have been a resigning matter in any normal country. His time as FG leader nearly resulted in the party being dissolved (remember his laughable proposal to use public money to refund the losses of people who bought Eircom shares?). As Finance Minister he has overseen: the renewal of the Bank guarantee, a further increase in unemployment, continued massive contraction of our domestic economy, the most regressive budgets ever seen while overseeing million-euro pensions for bankers and the paying off in full of virtually every bank bond, whether guaranteed or not.
What a legacy he’ll leave this and future generations. The useless bastard.
Basically he is saying ” leave us away with some of the money, OR ELSE, we’ll pay it all back. Gombeen.
I know one thing for sure, if any member of FG mouth moves, sure as day follows night, the fcuker is lying. And this especially applies to bilderberg Noonan. The man has the tongue of a snake. Not a man to be trusted. He has no integrity or honesty, the same applies to the rest of his rotten, lying party.
Ryan can you not utter a sentence without using the language of the gutter. Put that together with your usual anti Government rants and your arguments fall with your tongue.
I had a dog once who used to go round in circles trying to catch his own tail
The dail is full of them.
Bagpuss still chasing his tail.
no comment. to me this this has become the new form of protest instead of marching very sad
How much longer are we expected to put up with the goalposts being moved by this crowd of incompetent fools? Now it seems that the best we can hope for is a good deal. So much for all the big far reaching promises in regards to paying back bank debt. They either haven’t got the stomach for a fight, or they’re a bunch of treacherous liars.
The business perspective small, medium or large business owner would choose either:
A). Not to pay and face the upshot
B). Get a competitive interest rate, and
pay back over 100 years (trans
generational).
We need to move on
We need to refuse to pay. As its not our debt it’s not a default.
@Ciaran- the duly elected Government of the Irish Republic guaranteed the banks. It’s our debt. That’s Democracy for you.
Has somebody taken this bank debt deal to the courts to see if it is legal. Are private bank debts owned by 100 people allowed to be the responsibility of the whole nation. What politicians got their bank debts wrote off this time…..just thinking back to two previous bank bail outs, wasn’t two previous taoiseacht’s bank debts wrote off…..just thinking?
Its going through the courts at the moment.David Hall of new beginnings is bringing the action,but as a private citizen.
Thanks Norman. Glad somebody is checking this out. Their was a lot of politicians involved in funny loans in Fingletons bank too.
A certain Minister from Carlow/Kilkenny springs to mind.
Thank you Minister Noonan, we will reward you handsomely for committing economic treason.
The answer is simple. Everyone in Irelans should watch this video clip (had to type this) and ask who has the better economy and happier society now http://www.secretsofthefed.com/iceland-president-let-banks-go-bankrupt-video/
It was the right decision for Iceland and would have been the right decision here.
Its not too late
Tom
You are missing two facts that the President of Iceland overlooks. First their currency has collapsed ver the past four years by roughly fifty per cent. That means a simple doubling of prices for all imported products over the period. Try coping with that on small wages or minuscule Social Welfare. Secondly the negative equity on mortgages was made into a horror story as they were all denominated in non Icelandic currency.
Now Tom , which part of that do you want for Ireland on top of the cumulative pain we’ve suffered over the past five years?
I am sorry Mr. Noonan you may have not have a choicde on default. The natives are getting restless
Chasing shadows more like, it’s a dead duck!
He said with Glee…sad really.
Yes, Yes you are!
It’s funny you mention ducks, Stephen- because I always hear this quacking nose when I’m reading your comments. Quack, quack, quack…….
the only ducks we see here @vincent is government believers like you who think everything that comes out of the mouths of the traitors in power is true maybe u should stop quacking and start listening to the people who are suffering cos of these idiots
Replace the words ‘good deal’ with ‘his tail’ and you would be spot on…
donkeys chasing carrots
http://blog.activewebsite.com/files/2012/07/donkey-and-carrot.jpg
What deal? There never was deal to speak of in the first place. The only deal that’s been made of any description is that there will never be a deal.
It’s like a never ending episode of Yes Minister minus the F****** comedy
Best of luck to him…
Yeah… He may as well be chasing rainbows
The leprechaun in my garden says there’s a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
i wonder if anyone could give me a breakdown of this money we owe from anglo
its about 30 billion
what id like to know is
how much is private debt i.e. personal loans and mortgages excluding staff loans
how much is commercial debt
how many personal debtors there are
how many commercial debtors there are
I would really like to see the figures as anglo was a casino for high rollers and there was very little branch banking.
Good luck with that, theres no record of the secret night that got us well and truly hooked, never mind bank statements,
Frank
The Central Bank reported yesterday that the Irish consumed thirty billion Euro of debt in the five ears to 2007 with the purchase of luxury cars, buying overseas property and increasing domestic mortgages for short term consumption. Interesting that this figure matches the monies owed on Anglo.? Interesting the number of contributors here say it was all about Bankers and they should be jailed!
are the bankers not before the courts richard/paddy/michael/mark
the difference richard me auld mucker is that the bankers and there friends had to cash written off whereas we still have the debts in out homes and our cars. the government didnt write off the ordinary peoples loans, no they still expect payment the end of every month.
Why exclude staff loans? Some of them were outrageous…
Thats exactly why I did O’Reilly ,
they were more like commercial loans especially the directors ones
I wanted to get an idea of the figure of ordinary personal debt and the staff loans would skew that if they were grouped with the personal loans
He probably knows that there is a deal on the table and is playing the crowd so the outcome will make him look well ‘if we fail as a country Europe will look bad after all that we went through
If there is no deal we will just collapse
Not one red cent they said.
Good deal , good fukin deal. Don’t pay it that’s a good deal. What about a good deal for all the poor shytes in Ireland that can’t afford to even eat horse burgers.
Its time for the “Stability” “growth” BS.
Vote Lisbon 2 for jobs they said !! Haha
noonan should be put in a halloran box and spun the dangerous idiot…
“we wont default” -so which one is the liar, Rabitte or Baldy Noonan ?
do these gobsheits even talk to each other or is it all planned for us fools to swallow?
thing is, by the time Doherty gets his hands at the wheel, it will be too late and nothing left to bargain with.
The poor fools still come to eat the crumbs we throw at them… We almost feel pity… But not that much, muahahaaaa! #idiots
at the pace you move mick we will be well dead.
Noonan doesn’t care would you if you had his pay check,if he was doing it for the country he gladly be doing it for nothing.
PITYFUL, PATHETIC. WEAKINTELLTUALLY EMBARASSING. . . WHAT MORE CAN BE SAID ABOUT OUR LEADERS. NO BALLS, NO BRAINS AND NO HOPE.
Noonan advises that it would be ‘ very difficult ‘ for Ireland to make the €3.06 billion payment but insisted that Ireland is not going to default.
Advising the ECB that making payment this year would be ‘ very difficult ‘ would give leverage to our negotiations. Saying that it will be paid regardless of the difficulty removes all leverage and and any likelihood of a worthwhile deal.
Excellent negotiation strategy!
Pearce Doherty raised a valid point when asking Noonan why a proposal was made in the first instance if there was uncertainty as to whether it complied with legislation. Surely the government checked this with their legal advisers before they made their submission. This being the case then why wasn’t the ECB’s decision challenged by their legal advisers. One would like to think that following the ECB’s rejection of our proposal, the legal advise that was given would now be questioned by the government and that those responsible would be held accountable. This, of course, is assuming that the government sought legal advise in the first instance and considering the arrogance of those involved it would surprise very few if they didn’t which would also explain why we got it so wrong!
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