He can fool some of the people all of the time but he can’t fool all of the people all of the time!
We now get to see who the fools are.

Of course you can Frank …Article 5 of our constitution

He could always force them to take one for the team by telling them to f*ck off.

Mark
Isn’t it extraordinarily amusing to read the comment of barstool economists and barstool politicians and barstool Party Members who come on here day after day and shout the odds against those who are charged with the restoration of our economic sovereignty .
They use words such as clowns and fools and traitors and so many others to imply some form of expertise on their own part when to be honest something such elasticity of demand would escape them if it was holding up their trousers.
Do ever feel that way Mark or are you one of those ham actors who bemoans everything because you don’t understand or alternatively you are concerned that the boys and girls in charge are really beginning to make strides after such a short time in charge.

hahaha finger on the pulse as usual Paddy/Richard
How many nurses have signed up now???

So Richard Rodgers tell me how is Iceland doing at present and please explain how they did not understand and did everything wrong.

@ Richard Rodgers :I have been critical of lot of how the Governemt has gone about things particularly in relation to Mr Reily or Hogan have been involved in , they contiue to be inept IMHO. However, i fully agree with you on this point, there is nothing more tiresome that the populist imp talk of “tell them F off” or “burn the bond holder” etc etc that has hoodwinked 20% of the population in saying they would vote for marxist SF.. Noonan is not to every ones taste but he is clearly a wily old fox and clearly has been playing the long game . First rule of negotioation is that everybody has got to at least appaer to win , to take soemthing out of the deal . Did anybody think that a German or Finish politician was go to say , as sure forget about that loan while Fritz and Kimi are toiling in factories thinking the paddies have been dispensing cristal in the welfare office for 10 years. He has been doing his bidding in the shadows but now he is out very publicly telling the business community we played our part and we expect to be cut some slack . In fairness they had to build up a lot of political capiatl in europe after Bertie et used it all up telling conservative europeans to take a leaf out of our book crap

Awww Tensing,,,, has it been tiresome for you…. poor lad.

Of course we, well those of us here in Ireland, have to pick up the tab. Whats the next shitstorm they’ll bring down on us,,, household charge/tax, water charges,,,, cuts all over the place…. but whatever else happens, make sure the banking bailout/bondholders continue to be paid.

Tiresome for *you*!!!!!!!???????????? Try keeping a roof over yerself, missus and 4 f*cking kids!!!!

@ Richard ….yes indeed they have ….we have a government minister who freely admitted to lying during the elections….. so do you go along with that as well …lying?…perhaps not ……….. is that it or am I am little too behind the wall to understand that when a man says he’s lying he is not in fact a liar ?
Now defend the indefensible if you wish !

“Ireland took one for the team” Yeah right up the shannon estuary.

Richard from all expert reports that I have seen over the last couple of years, the only strides the leaders who we voted in (under a totally different mandate to the one they are currently working under might i add too) are making are putting additional generations necks into the payback noose for the lies, corruption, coercion and criminality of those who are quite literally living off blood money and getting away with financial murders.

It doesnt take any sort of genius to understand that not only have the current government failed to adopt any of their pre election promises, they have continually played their hands without using any of the aces they have had. We have had several opportunities in the last 2 years to apply some pressure to the german-franco axis that is now at the centre of maintaining this fiscal oppression that the majority of European workers are finding themselves under, and yet each time we had a trump card to play, we buckle like a starry-eyed prom date and allow merkel, Dragi and the rest of our masters to walk over us.

You ask what do we honestly think of the actions of Noonan, Gilmore, Edna and thes rest, in truth, the language filter precludes me from exercising my true feelings, but suffice to say, a blind deaf, dumb barrel load of monkeys could do a better job than this FG/Lab monstrosity. But unfortunately the reality of what they have done wont become apparent until they are long gone from Leinster House and living off the fruits of our labours..

If we did refuse to pay, we’d then have to cut our defecit to 0 immediately, but I wouldn’t mind once the right people were also charged (namely travelers and non-contributors)

Joseph, yes you’re tiresome , I have wife you lost her job 4 years ago and i have 3 kids under 5 so dont lecture me rambo, I spend every cent of my income on my mortage , food ,clothes, fuel for my familly ,Like youself i guess,buts whats your plan mc gee , cry the trioka out if it is . whats your plan for the addressing 300K a day we borrow from them to pay for our sevices . Oh yeah it to tell everyone to piss off out of it, cut the TD pay , tax the multi millionaries that will get the first flight to Zurich ,. Thats the stuff . BTW,What your plan for the middle east conflict ,stop fighting there now lads ??

He’s deluded if he thinks we’ll get a pat on the head for being good gillies. The most likely outcome is that we’ ll be seen as push overs. No gold star…a kick in the arse maybe.

FG owe the Irish people big time for taking it in the Re*r to save the euro, and the introduction of the property tax

Talk to me in 40 years time and you’ll see I was proven right.

Reminds me of the line from fine gaels right wing christian counterparts in the states about the Iriaq war…”History will be the judge”

How convenient.

I prefer Cesar Chavez who first coined the phrase, but you’ve probably never heard of him.

http://www.shelltosea.com/

No need to panic folks ..enda is going to save us …he said it in the dail and the proof is on the link!

“I prefer Cesar Chavez who first coined the phrase, but you’ve probably never heard of him.”

http://commonquote.com/author/19227/condoleezza-rice

“History will judge how well we did. “

Is he the guy behind the reggie reggie sauce?

No, that’s Isaac Roots. Yummy!

Sorry, Levi Roots. (thinking of Isaac Hayes)

So that idiot just took on all the debt in our names on their word saying that they were going to sort us out??? That shows you how much he gives a shit about this whole situation.

Werjammin. .. Have they been proven to be illegal prom notes??

You missed the radio interview where noonan alluded to their illegality Jay?

Tell ya what, would you prefer immoral, odious, unlawful, unconstitutional………?

Jay
Michael Noonan admitted the prom notes were illegal to pat kenny on radio.
do you believe what the minister for finance says?

Werejammin If they were illegal then even turning them into sovergn would technically be illegal then why isnt this been the case. .. Surley You can turn somethin illegal to legal by transfering it to the central bank ?? Im not being sarcastic im serious

Frank eh no i dont belive what the finance minister says. As the last time a finance minister spoke to the people of this country they told us everythinh was gonna be ok only for us to go tits up soon after

do you believe what the finance minister says Jay?

Like i just said frank no i dont truat noonan At all he hasnt given me a reason to trust him yet

your all over the place Jay
You commend and defend michael noonan for selling the bonds on the other thread but yet on this thread you claim you dont believe a word he says
you can’t have it both ways

frank …..
the government are in a corner now in my opinion…check out Enda ….

http://www.shelltosea.com/

That’s funny Jay you don’t believe the Finance Minister. Because in the other story on the T bills you seem to be right up Noonan’s ass with love for is greatness in selling short term finance.

Bonds have to be sold frank you could do that job its not that difficult anyone could bond selling isnt the part of the job that can give me a reason to distrust him .. How the rest of the next two years pan out will be the decider on weather i trust him or any other finance minister for that matter

i wouldn’t use the wording Troll on forums usually, because everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Buy Jay your opinions on the promissory notes and the T bills directly contradicts yourself, Your comment are in opposition to yourself and other posters, leaving me with not choice but to brand you a

… TROLL!!!!!!

“Werejammin If they were illegal then even turning them into sovergn would technically be illegal then why isnt this been the case. .. ”

Hence the manufactured emergency and bill rushed through in the middle of the night by miraculous coincdence the night before the legality of the prom notes was due to be ruled on. The notes disappeared, the debt did not.

Don’t embarass yourself further Jay.

Jay, I would quit now if I were you, your starting to make yourself look rather silly

I asked a simple question i am not aware of the law around this hence why i asked. Surley if they are illegal to start with we can still argue their legality regardless of whT the government do with them ???

Simon i dont trust noonan. Never did i say i do .. But unlike yourself and frank i dont discredit everything he does based on my personal opinion of him.. You think the TBills are a bad idea i dont. Makes no difference if noonan was finance minister or frank was finance minister my views on them are not clouded by an anti government opion like frank

Where and what did he say??? I can’t find it on the site

whats personal opinion got to do with anything jay
I think he is professionally incompetent as does his fellow TD and party member Peter Matthews. Don’t try and wriggle out of it by saying i dont like him personally. Your arguements are falling apart at the seams and you are all over the place. You have contradicted yourself so many times im losing track.
I will ask you again as it seems to have slipped your mind on the other post,
Do you think the people who had their respite grant cut are happy with the minister wasting 1.2 million in takpayers money on a pointless exercise??

Frank ive said numerous times that the respite cut was a and should have been overturned by the seanead .. It was a market confidence exercise and nothing more .. You could compare everythin the government does to the respite cut and youll never loose an arguement Wont make your points any more valid to anyone else but urself

Well said Frank and jammin, your not the first to pull jay up for his swings and roundabout comments. A revolving door at the best of times. I’v given up, it’s like talking to an alzheimer’s patient.

Fair points btw….agree in full as always. Two of the very many speaking sense on this site.

you still dont get it do you
if it was a market confidence boost it FAILED
the bills we guranteed and they cost more that was anticipated to sell them
where is the confidence boost?

simons post on the last thread was spot on
it was an attempt to con the taxpayer nothing more nothing less

Show me where ryan ??? Dont try bullshit ur was into a conversation

That just how a sharp financier would negotiate play all the cards and then expect to get something back for being such a good looser

But will he care – like all the politicians who got the bankers out of bankruptcy – they will be well repaid – and dont talk about fat pensions . Their fat pensions will be a small part of their income .
as for the Ha-Ha – once again we are only laughing at ourselves .
Criminals wheter bankers or politicians should get wat they deserve – and just voting them out of office is not waht they deserve .

You’ve got beer stains on your giant red shoes.

Sadly that traitor Lenihan and friends converted over 90% of unsecured bond holders in to state debt before he left. He worked hard to do it. It certainly was not about protecting Ireland.

If FG and Lab. do not reach some acceptable deal on lifting the onerous debts of others that this state has taken on, then they will be wiped out electorally and deservedly so.

Why aren’t you finance minister so, genius?

http://www.shelltosea.com/

It is at times like this I remember the Lisbon treaty being sold to us a “paperwork exercise “…to clear up red tape ….. well if that’s what we voted for then that’s what we have …Mc Kenna and McCrystal cases …….. Europe has no and can have no sovereignty over us as a result ! …in my opinion!
check out enda inthe dail …it’s a matter of public record ! in the link above!

http://www.shelltosea.com/

check this out dude…tell your friends! …enda is going to save us …he has no choice now!

I’ll have a goo Dermo.

Peace out

There’s a bit of a revolution beginning …… among sheep anyway…did you see the ewes chasing the fox on the youtube …… the foxes are in big trouble ……….. the sheep are on to them as we say in ireland!
With regard to the defence of our constitution ….some us are looking very closely at the judicary and their !interpretation of democracy” …….. back to foxes and sheep again in a way!

There was 2 main elements to the bank Guarantee and Lenihan/FF’s rush to convert the Anglo bonds to state debt before a new Govt. came in.

1. There was pressure to take one for the ECB lest a tumble in Ireland’s banks cause a cascade across the continent.

2. If bond companies had taken Anglo over they would have seen the vol. of loans that FF reps and members were getting, often with no interest. FF would have been finished and many of its key members jailed.

That’s all hear say and speculation.
What do we have in writing?
It’s like paying off a loan shark and then claiming he owes us one.
We all know who did the damage but that doesn’t change anything.
We’ve committed the money and that’s not going to change.
Especially if no change is even asked for.

“It’s like paying off a loan shark and then claiming he owes us one.”

A more accurate analogy would be being forced to pay off somebody elses debt to the loan shark

I stand corrected.
Mind you either way we’re screwed.

Darren

Correction. Anglos bonds were not unsecured credit. However if the bank had been liquitated back when the trouble started they would have become.

I agree Arbitrasure Noonan does come across very well on Bloomberg and its manly US audience. Good old USA where 85% don’t have a passport and 60% can’t even find their own state on a map.

At least the Irish know how much of a waster he is, while the Europeans just laugh in his face.

You seem to have a poisoned, conceited view of the world carcu.

Are you filled with struggle between acute self-loathing and a vastly over-inflated sense of superiority?
Do you blame everybody but yourself for your current predicament?
Do you drink heavily to drown your sorrows?
Sounds like you might be Irish after all.

arb according to his party collegue peter matthews noonan doesn’t have a clue,
if , as he says this deal was on the cards for months where was the provision for the customers of IRBC who had credit accounts running right up until prom night, where is the provision for the 18000 mortgage holders whose accounts evapourated overnight.
prom night was bailout night mark 2 and we will pay a heavy price for panicing and pushing through legislation which needed greater examination than 1 hour.

Peter Matthews, I understand was an accountant and ex-middle management at failed state bank ICC; may be a very smooth, softly spoken politician, almost too likeable and too eager not to offend for his own good.

However that he pitches himself as some sort of banking/international finance expert, like Shane Ross, I think might be over selling himself a few miles beyond his actual track record and areas of expertise.

For some reason, probably because he worked in financial services, some people seem to attach a sort of guru status – which he would probably reject if he was asked if that is how he sees himself. (I hope)

and my other points?

and michael noonans qualifications are?

The liquidation was the right thing to do. It should have happened sooner.

That end result is a good one for Ireland. Catapulting the debt into a federalised european bond pool in 40 years time, where it will have shrunken considerably due to inflation by the time the principal falls due, and dropping the interim interest rate considerably.

That the mortgage holders at IBRC have a few days transition to making their payments to alternative destination accounts is irrelevant. In a perfect world that should have been organised in advance, but hard to do when not wanting to give advance notice of a pending liquidation and the court orders that would have ensued from creditors and bondholders.

and on Noonan’s qualifications – I refer you to the CSO pages on key economic indicators to assess if you think Ireland is performing better or worse now that it was a few years ago when FF were finally rejected by the people.

arb
your first post is pure conjecture, there are a lot of if’s, but’s and and’s attached.
why are two of the triochet letters unadmissable to the public,
we had the support of a lot of europe in seeking a debt writedown but noonan didnt even ask
i am going to tell you something i know, michael noonan isint even the brightest in his family nevermind the government so this idea he is a good negociator is a myth.
he is a pure neo liberalist who has a wider agenda
what was he doing at bilderberg
why cant we have access to the details of the account holders at anglo
where is the banking enquiry
there are just too many questions surrounding mr noonan

his admittance to the fact we took one for the team after the fact and his admittance that he thought the prom notes were illegal is actually quite sickening

Well said mr cluskey

Carl

Recovery, really! What recovery would that be, it can’t be an Irish recovery.

Oh wait you mean a FG recovery and not an Irish one.

Thank you Arbitrasure for bring us into the United States of Europe just like Anglea wants. The only good think will be that wasters like Noonan will no longer be needed.

Carcu, we are all-in with Europe now. There is no going back. All our chips are locked into Frankfurt.
I don’t see this as a bad thing. We’d 100 years to demonstrate if we could run our own affairs.

Ireland can survive and thrive as the scrappy-doo of the EU. That is what the majority of the electorate want.

Arbitrasure
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xICkD4ijyZ4
check this out and then multiply 180 billion by one euro and then explain to me why we’re broke ! ..

@ Arbitrasure, we don’t pay it back in 2038 or 2053.!!! Yeah, right. We just pay interest. That is hysterical.

Just under the value of Fish that have been taken out of our waters. We’ll contribute all that we received back to others who need it in years to come and i’ve no problem with that.