Same with Ireland, Spain, Italy, Portugal, and Cyprus.

Question marks over the presence of Belgium as well.

Add up Greek public and private debt, it is still a lot smaller than ours.

Greece does need to leave the Euro Zone, if it is ever to recover . Same though with the above, they realistically have to leave the Euro, if it is to become a sustainable currency in the long term.

Most Germans want these talks to fail and for Greece to leave the euro. They´re sick of sending them billions to shore up their finances. Merkel and Sarkozy hinted they were coming around to the idea as well when the Greeks were mooting a referendum. Many here will say that they´d be be better off defaulting anyway, as would we, but boy, there would be austerity on an epic scale then. Nobody can tell me that defaulting and not being able to borrow avoids austerity. It´s just a question of how sharp it is, and for how long it drags it out.

yes you can kick them out if you wanted to,,, afterall,, it is only an agreement,,, not a contract

@Kevin

That´s a hell of a throw of the dice you want there. When Irish wage levels collapse after default then I´m sure there would be “investors” arriving, like the carpetbaggers in the American south after the Civil war.

But the key point: Irish wages will have collapsed.

If everyone is OK with that then it should be considered, but it´s a little feature that default cheerleaders seem to keep quiet about.

People are quick to say that Iceland should be our model, but again, what are the wage levels in Iceland, public sector and private sector, compared to Ireland?

@ Neil. Would it not be better to direct what ever resources we do have towards Ireland and it’s people rather then shipping it off to Europe’s banks etc? Because that is what we are doing and we will be doing it for generations. Yes if we default it may be painful but at least the pain would for ourselves. The point about Iceland is they are on the road towards recovery while Ireland is not and will not recover for at least 10 years.

@Kerry
When you´re the one that has to explain to PS workers, and social welfare recipients, that tomorrow they´re getting half what they were the day before, then you´ve got a problem.
It´s admirable to think about the bigger picture and explain that in 5 years time we´ll be better off if we take the extreme pain now.
But human beings don´t generally think like that. And therefore politicians don´t think like that.
We can criticise the politicians for “kicking the can”, but I can understand it as the Irish people will not accept the overnight effects of a unilateral default as much as you may think they would.

@ neil,,
the problem is not the social welfare,, its a much bigger picture than that, Ireland will not get out of this mess for 30 yrs…. and eventually because of austerity we will have min wage,, all the so called broke countries have a debt per head of about 50,000,,, in Ireland its 360,000,, and personal debt for those countries is about 240 % of GDP, Irelands debt per head is 630% of GDP…. and if we do eventually get to the stage where all our debt is paid,, it will mean nothing to ua as a nation,, all our resources will have been swallowed up,, like corrib oid,, or the gas,, r the esb network,, sold or given away,,, not to mention our pension fund,, so the bigger picture has to be looked at,,,

@Joe
Politically, SW is the issue. Public sector pay is the issue. Because the government that decides to default tomorrow is the government that must cut SW and PS pay in half tomorrow.

If you want to make the case that this would be a short term extreme pain for longer term pain then you can.
But you will get zero political support and your party will get a wipeout that even FF did not get. People will not support you for what you say Ireland will look like in 5 years. They support you for what you did for them last week.

There is zero point moaning that the government won´t take the drastic action of default unless the Irish people are fully aware of the consequences and accepts them.

And the crap being put out by some that default will instantly bring 2007 back is not helping. You need to be upfront about the extreme austerity that a unilateral default will bring, and then convince people it would be worth it.

at last,, someone talking sence,, its not what if but when,,,and it will break up and we all have been fooled