'On my first day, I turned on the computer and went, "Oh my God, what am I doing?"'
Vicki O’Toole of packaging supplier JJ O’Toole Ltd talks about learning to trust her gut.
VICKI O’TOOLE’S ENTREPRENEURIAL spirit didn’t truly kick in until 2002 when she started working at the retail packaging firm then fronted by her late husband, Fergus.
She took over as managing director of Limerick-based JJ O’Toole six years later – two years before her husband died – and has gone on to steer the business through the plastic bag levy and strike deals with giants like Avoca.
O’Toole, who is shortlisted for the EY Entrepreneur of the Year award, has helped the 104-year-old firm turn a profit and maintain relationships with high-profile clients like Dunne Stores, Newbridge Silverware and Brown Thomas.
As part of our weekly question-and-answer series, we spoke to O’Toole about not having work-life balance, learning to listen to her gut and rugby hero Paul O’Connell’s amazing memory. Here’s what she had to say:
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How do you start a standard day and how do you finish it?
If I’m not travelling, my alarm usually goes off at 6.30am. Depending on if I’m doing a school run or not, I’d be in here at 7.30am or 7.45am.
I try and finish up at about 6pm. Depending on the weather, I go out in the garden or cook the dinner when I get home. But I always finish every evening on my emails again.
I really don’t have work-life balance. We’re supplying the retail sector, which is 24/7 – some clients aren’t even closed on Christmas Day.
So there’s always somebody looking for me. And I just hate not replying back as soon as I can. It’s nearly a disease at this stage.
How would you describe your work/management style?
I work terribly hard and I would never ask anybody to do anything I wouldn’t do myself. I’m well-known here for being seen at weekends spraying weeds and cleaning skirting boards if we’ve got VIPs coming to the office.
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But it’s a team effort in here. I can’t do anything without them. The one thing I do try and emphasise in here is learning. I really don’t want anybody to come in here without learning something new by the end of each day, including myself.
What’s the toughest work-related decision you’ve ever had to make?
Walking into the business on the first day and staying put. That was really tough; coming in knowing that I knew nothing.
It was a difficult time for everybody including Fergus’s colleagues in here. They were a great support. I got great support from my brother and brother-in-law who were steering the ship from the background.
The company needed stability and Fergus needed moral support from me. But it was a huge decision. I actually didn’t know what I was doing until I walked in the door and sat at the desk and turned on the computer and went, ‘Oh my God, what am I doing?’
When you look back it’s scary, but when you’re going through it, you just get on with it.
What’s the biggest risk you’ve ever taken?
I think it was buying back the premises that we’re in now in 2015. When Fergus and his brother were running the business, the company had moved to Dooradoyle.
I wasn’t involved in the business at the time, but they built a bespoke building for JJ O’Toole Limited 20 years ago, where I’m sitting now. What I didn’t realise was it was a purpose build and they sold it to four landlords.
When I came in, one of the first things I started looking at was overheads. One of the biggest overheads was our rent. The deal that was done in those days during the Celtic Tiger was an upward-only rent agreement.
After engaging with the landlords, we came up with a deal that suited both of us. Then, in 2015, I decided to buy the premises back.
I’d never bought anything major before including a car, so it was huge for me to buy a building, but I did it. Weirdly, after all the worry and sleepless nights, I never really thought about it again.
What’s the one work skill you wish you had?
I wish I had more patience. I’m patient to a degree. This business is so fast-paced and we’re so often relying on others to give us an answer.
I’m half-German, which maybe explains this, but I’m not the most patient person in the world. I want everything to be done and executed in an hour.
I need to learn to be much more patient. I’m much better than I used to be – I think that comes with age.
If there was one person in the world you could hire, who would it be and why?
There are three. I’m fascinated by Indra Nooyi, the CEO of Pepsico. She’s retiring in October. I think she is an incredible woman. I’ve read her story. She’s a mould-breaker. The sales of Pepsico grew 80% during her 12-year tenure.
She came from a middle-class background in India where her parents wanted all their children to be married at 18, or 20 at the latest.
Her older sister was getting married when Indra said she wanted to move to the States. Her parents were not at all happy, but they allowed her to go.
It’s amazing for her to do that and be a woman as well. I’ve listened to her being interviewed and she’s just a normal person who speaks to people in a normal way.
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More locally, I would hire the manager of the Limerick hurling team, John Kiely. I’m a mad hurling fan. I’ve watched him at many matches this year. He’s calm and decisive and is zen-like.
To manage a young team and to get all those players to walk onto that pitch and do what they did to win the All-Ireland final is exemplary. I’d definitely love him working with me.
I’d hire Paul O’Connell as well. I’ve met him and spoken to him at events, but only briefly. He always remembers my name – and my son, Philip, who he’s never met.
Back in 2011, he rented our house in Kilkee. We heard he was coming and left a rugby ball for him to sign. All my boys are big rugby fans. Philip was nine at the time and had just lost his dad. Every time I’ve met Paul since, he asks me how Philip is doing.
They’re the kind of people you want working with you – people matter to them; it’s not all about turnover and margins.
What bad work (or business) habit have you had to kick?
Procrastination. I’m absolutely desperate. I always get the job done in the end and will never go to a meeting unless I’m 100% ready, but I sometimes start small things instead of getting the big things out of the way.
I’m much, much better – I’m maybe 75% cured. But I’m not fully cured yet.
What has been your biggest mistake to date and what did you learn from it?
My biggest mistake to date is not going with my gut feeling. I know when things are wrong – I have a feeling that something’s wrong.
When somebody comes in who is more educated than you, it’s that kind of thing inside that makes you think they must know more than you.
I’m not doing that any more because at the end of the day, it doesn’t matter a jot what initials you have after your name.
My solicitor told me years ago, “Vicki, you’re actually a bright person. If you ask a question three times and you still do not understand the answer, it’s not you – it’s them.”
Fergus always said that he didn’t think he had a gut feeling, but he always said that I did. He said, “Always go with your gut feeling if in doubt.” I’m going to do that from now on. It’s rarely failed me – I just haven’t been listening to it properly.
