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A NEW WHISKEY maker in Carlow has been handed a €500,000 bill from Irish Water to upgrade the local water treatment plant about six months before the distillery is scheduled to go online.
But the Walsh Whiskey Distillery’s founder Bernard Walsh said he had no intention of paying the fee after securing the go-ahead for its water-use plan two years ago.
The controversial semi-state first notified the distillery in March that it would be asked to pay for the treatment-plant upgrade, to which Walsh’s initial response was “they must be joking”.
“Irish Water said we have a problem with the plant, we are going to have to charge you because we are going to need to upgrade it,” he told TheJournal.ie.
I don’t know if they are looking for soft targets, but this is something they should have sorted out with the local authority.”
A licence
Walsh, who is also head of the Irish Whiskey Association, said the majority of the water the distillery used would be recycled, but it was given a licence to send a share to the local wastewater treatment plant during its approvals process in 2013.
The company has spent €25 million developing the site and it will be finished later this year. It is expected to create 55 jobs making its Irish pot, grain and malt whiskey under the brands The Irishman and Writers Tears.
If we didn’t get that we probably wouldn’t have built there – we probably would have built somewhere else,” Walsh said.
The meeting was followed up with a letter notifying of the €500,000 charge, which came only a few weeks before today’s launch of the Irish whiskey industry’s plan to triple its global market share over the next 15 years.
‘Absolutely not’ paying
Walsh said his company would pay its regular water and waste-treatment bills, but it would “absolutely not” be paying the extra €500,000.
It is an easy target to pick on a small company,” he said. ”We have our licence … we are going to be discharging on the first of January. Irish Water has the problem, not us.”
In a statement, an Irish Water spokeswoman said:
“Since January 2014, if a person or business is applying for planning permission the applicant needs to apply separately to Irish Water for a connection for water or sewerage services.
If a business is making a planning application that needs new water infrastructure, which is solely required to service the development, then Irish Water is obliged to recover the costs of delivering this infrastructure from that business.
“Irish Water is not permitted to pass costs on, associated with infrastructure to service the needs of a specific developer, to other domestic and business Irish Water customers.’’
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The lack of joined up thinking here annoys the hell out me. One government agency probably giving this company large grants to set up in Carlow, while another wants to take 500 grand off it before it even starts trading.
Couldn’t organise a piss up in the distillery.
God help us if this new distillery plans to take it’s water supply from the mains, you wouldn’t know what chemicals could be included.
Chris, the main “chemical” is H2O.
That would be half a million moved off -balance sheet –
How will we ever pay back our debts if Enda keeps wanting to hand over the wealth of the Nation to privateers …
P.S – Sinn Fein – you had your time to get an injunction to halt the installation of water meters pending the inquiry – it has passed now …
I am sure you will accept the consequences – you had your chance and besides they are inevitable !
this irish water will drive this and any other company out of the country..was there a large grant giving this company permission to operate.we are supposed to be creating jobs not ripping off employers at every hands turn.who ever sent this demand should be sacked
Chris i take it you dont know how whiskey is distilled?
I did’nt know that Dennis o Brien was going into the spirit industry
If this company got the go ahead in 2013 then Irish Water are too late to the party. It’s crazy that an organisation can just randomly walk up to someone and say I think you owe us €500k. Have they actually just been given a licence to print money by the Government? I’m in the wrong game….and extortionists are probably thinking the same thing too
Let Irish water go fcuk themselves.
Cool, first real topic of the day for the biters and haters to get their teeth stuck into.
On your marks, get set – Negativity
In a separate article, another whisky distillery has outlined plans to export globally, to become an international player. The craft beer industry in Ireland is also doing well.
Then you have this company, and I use the word lightly, trying to bill a new, potentially massively successfully enterprise with half a million euro. The mind boggles…. As if I didn’t already know that IW is peopled with fools and hacks. Jesus, they do themselves no favours.
Baz, its hard to be positive when we have the government we have
Oh baz did Enda hurt u wen he pulled out this morning.
They did’nt send a bill to any multi-national pharma-company. Not even in kildare, where they had to jump through hoops to accommodate a tax dodging behemoth.
Baz, I think you should look up ‘negative’ in the dictionary. Any story that highlights anyone sending the water scammers off with a flea in their ear is positive.
Irish water just give up!
It’s like a millstone around the current government neck and the ice is about to break on the river !
E.SB. workers got a U.S.C. exemption – this is favouritism and illegal !
Enda and the minister in question will do time over this – if they are lucky that is !
They do pay USC on their pay etc….. bad journalism would lead you to believe that they pay no USC…
the exemption is just to do with shares or stock in ESB or something…. this sort of arrangement is relitively common, but not right….
Not right is the key Amused – Income is income !
Furthermore if there was a time limit on the exemption then it would seem that it was designed to push E.S.B. shares into the Open Market …..
This will not go away …..
In the budget I think 2012 it was brought in that ALL SHARES given to employees as a bonus would be charged U.S.C, P.R.S.I and P.A.Y.E
No distinction was made
Irish Water is a joke, our way of servicing the tax paying public is a joke. We need real leadership and focus in this country, besuited teachers, farmers and family dynasties making a mockery and disgrace of the Irish people .
But private companies have always paid for water
True, but what new company was EVER, in the history of businesses paying for water in this country, expected to pay out half a million quid for water?
How anti-business or just lacking a f*cking clue can you get? Suppose the company actually accepted this bill, then add the cost of materials, labour, insurance, wages, stock, light and heat, there isn’t much room for profit is there? So, from a entrepreneurial point if view, what’s the point of doing it at all?
These people are muppets, pure idiots that haven’t a business-minded person between them clearly. Not much else I can say.
Prob not that unusual if you’re consuming water, generating wastewater on an industrial scale?
Seemingly they are not genrating waste water at an industrial scale at all. This is taken from the owner’s interview on broadsheet.ie;
“Most, apart from the whiskey that we produce, the by-product from the distillery is sent, drained pot ale and that goes back into agriculture as animal feed. But there are small waste drains such as wastewater from cleaning out our pots and the system there, etc.”
Here’s the full interview,
http://www.broadsheet.ie/2015/05/12/nothing-short-of-extortion/
Obviously, I know that doesn’t PROVE anything, it’s his word against IW’s but given all the lies Irish Water have spewed in their short tenure, I know who I’d be inclined to believe….
So let me get this straight.
Commenters on here want the taxpayers to subsidise this potentially multi million euro business to the tune of €500k ? You can be sure they are already availing of the substantial grants available to this industry.
Surely this business should pay to get the system up to standard to treat their waste and not expect the people of Ireland to subsidise their profits.
What ever about private citizens having to pay for water.. Big industry jumping on the “we won’t pay” band wagon is a bit much.
Hang on now, they never disputed that they have to pay for water, they’re only disputing the figure. According to them, they produce very little wastewater so half a million is an extortionate figure.
Actually, just read that link altogether.
You’ve also hit a bit of a snag with “potentially multi-million euro” enterprise; “POTENTIALLY”.
They haven’t even started trading as yet. It’s unreasonable to expect them to shoulder half a million quid before they’ve even started trading but clearly reasonable to some halfwit in IW.
Well they’ve invested 25 million already and haven’t generated profit. It’s simple why should the tax payer stump the bill for a company that will make profits for a rich business man
They haven’t even started trading yet..
It’s great that big business has a spokesman in you Vin.
But if the system can’t take what the distillery is going to use/send down the pipes who exactly should pay the costs of getting the system up to scratch?
Does it not seen strange to you that they would choose a company in it’s infancy that has yet to start trading with such a bill?
It’s a bit much to say I’m a spokesman for big business; I simply despise this company. Did you read that link, no? They have categorically stated that they are willing to pay for water. They also say that they produce minimal wastewater. They never said they wouldn’t pay, they said they wouldn’t pay such an extortionate amount; are they not entitled to dispute the figure? Why do you want them to hobble a potentially successful enterprise before it even starts trading?
I wonder how many pharmaceutical companies they have approached with such bills? Ever wonder how much water is required to make pharmaceuticals? Ever think how much wastewater such a company would produce?
I think you are letting the fact that you despise them cloud your logic.
If you want to build a factory and the pipe outside isn’t big enough to supply your water. Who should pay to put in a pipe big enough?
You the factory developer businessman, or the poor people of Ireland ?
These guys are trying to use the public hate for Irish water to get out of paying their bills. Don’t fall for it Vin, you are better than that.
I’ll accept that the scenario that you present is a possibility.
However, given the disingenuous nature that Irish Water has exhibited towards the general public in relation to consultation, water charges format, registration and pricing I am inclined to distrust their position.
You are correct when you point to the multimillion investment however it seems that IW are anxious to pass on their costs to the distillery. As yet, the company has not produced and these upgrades that IW present as the basis for their charges seem to be coming at such perfect timing that it seems contrived to me.
I’m sure more on this story will surface; I hope so anyway, it’s one that should be gotten to the bottom of in my opinion. If I am right, it just proves all the more that IW are a malignant company that should be dismantled post haste. If you are right and the business is trying to pull the wool over my eyes and the collective eyes of the people and have us pay his bills, we have the right to know and boycott the firm’s produce.
Either way, we should know for sure.
Fair enough. Points well made.
And it’s great that Irish Water has a fine sycophant in you, John.
Your way off the mark there John Doe – what people on here want is for IW to fluich right off. This company is already paying water rates as is every other company in the country. Here’s an idea why don’t they just get the multi-nationals to pay the corporation taxes they already owe.
Gene Kerrigan is of the opinion that when the stress test goes ahead in June, Irish Water will pass the stress test only because Eurostat will lie to make sure it passes!
Sure isn’t big Phil himself in Europe to look after the eurostat test
sure wasn’t it a condition of the bailout, enforced by the same folks?
now, the exemption under article 9.4 of the EU Water Framework Directive is a different issue – one that seems to have slipped away without any explanation from anyone. that’s worrying.
What a total cluster f*** Irish Water is and those who brought it into existence….
Irish Water the f**k up that just keeps giving.
Well im not paying a third time for water and il wait to see who gets into government. Certainly not voting for FG/LAB and anyone who does hasn’t a clue what’s going on.
Banking terrorism and inept government stooges for big business.
If we dont start taking our country back then it will soon be to late!!!!
Emmet, who will you pay the other two times?
2% of our 23% VAT rate and an undisclosed amount of Motor Tax are used to pay for water, the third entity that will not be paid by sane people will be Irish water
But this is a private company that will generate profit for the owner. Why should the tax payer supplement his profits. I totally agree with private people not paying but now you want private companies subsidised by the tax payer aswell. Ridiculous
AN, there is not and never has been a link between a particular VAT Rate, Motor tax etc and spending. The government creates a budget each year and then creates the tax rates and borrowing to cover that budget. From this year on water costs are not in the budget and therefore not in the tax take. Has that never been explained to either of you before? Water was paid for by tax IN THE PAST.
Horseshit. You should have a look into the Finance Act of 1997 which abolished water rates and replaced them with the aforementioned tax increases.
LOCAL GOVERNMENT (FINANCIAL PROVISIONS) ACT, 1997
AN ACT TO ENABLE LOCAL AUTHORITIES TO ENJOY THE REVENUES FROM DUTIES CHARGED UNDER THE FINANCE (EXCISE DUTIES) (VEHICLES) ACT, 1952 , AND FROM DUTIES AND FEES CHARGED UNDER CERTAIN OTHER ENACTMENTS, TO REMOVE THE POWER OF LOCAL AUTHORITIES TO MAKE CHARGES FOR THE SUPPLY OF WATER FOR DOMESTIC PURPOSES OR FOR THE DISPOSAL OF DOMESTIC SEWAGE, TO ENABLE STEPS TO BE TAKEN FOR THE PURPOSE OF SECURING THE PROVISION BY LOCAL AUTHORITIES OF SERVICES IN A MORE ECONOMICAL AND EFFICIENT MANNER, TO OTHERWISE MAKE PROVISION IN RELATION TO LOCAL GOVERNMENT (IN PARTICULAR FOR THE PURPOSE OF ENSURING THAT THE REVENUES FROM DUTIES AND FEES AFORESAID ARE APPORTIONED AMONG LOCAL AUTHORITIES ON AN EQUITABLE AND FAIR BASIS) AND TO PROVIDE FOR RELATED MATTERS. [20th May, 1997]
Hand it back to Fianna Fáil
What bit of IN THE PAST do you not understand? All expenditure in the budget comes from taxes that’s all your copy & paster says. From now on water costs are not in the general budget nor in taxes. They’ve changed it. BEFORE you paid for water in taxes, now direct to Irish Water.
Got a bill from them yesterday..since i am not and have no intention of being a customer I am not paying..got me thinking though..I am not paying..nobody i know is paying..will the message ever actually sink in that people are happy for water to be covered by taxation ?
Obviously Irish Water regards Uisce Beatha as literally the water of life!!!! No cop on in Irish Water. The noble art of shooting ones self in the foot. I suppose any other brewery that improves its systems will be hit with extraordinary bills too. Next up water tax newborn babies since they are mostly water and each new life is a new lifelong user of water. Every new industry being welcomed by our Government hypocrites will run a mile when they see Irish Water coming with its paw out looking for money. Just apply the newborn baby analogy.
Yesterday IW took ownership of a further 138 water treatment facilities around the country.
For this, the councils received €460m from IW. That money was originally taken from the percentage that the councils receive from the Motor Tax…but that was diverted to IW by the Government.
So, IW bought the treatment plants using the councils own money.
Irish Water use taxpayers money to buy stuff owned by the taxpayer to sell back to the taxpayer while taking a cut off the top for the cronies.
It’s truly is mindbogglingly stuff is it…. a true masterclass is cronyism… bravo Fine Gael and Labour.
To Our Dear Leader Heir Enda, his side kick, Hogan aided by the fall guys Kenny and Ms Burton you’ve made FF look like amateurs!
Patriots one and all :-/
Come on Bernard pay the 1/2 Million .. Teirney is relying on you for his bonus…
A slap on the wrist for small businesses. They should be applauded not punished!
Go home Irish Water, you’re drunk.
Never water a mans whiskey .
As my uncle, a bottle of Crested Ten a day man (with a slice of Lemon), used to say, “Don’t steal another man’s wife and never water his whiskey.”
“The Irishman and Writers Tears.”
I think we know what market that’s going for.
Irish Water are new to all this and they haven’t got the message yet, they need to concentrate their efforts on screwing the poor and make them pay for the lot.
That MD fella is a slow learner. Kelly will have to send him to the States for training.
I thought that the water had to be consumed before it could be charged for. Whiskey takes at least three years to produce so there should be some leeway given before the bills start flowing. In any case the government will get plenty of tax from duty ant Vat so they shouldn’t be adding the cost of water.
How I read is is that this bill is for works on the nearest plant to take the waste water from the distillery…nothing to do with their consumption of water.
That is a bit unfair considering that the waste-water comes mainly from sewage, how many people do they employ.
But chris – Irish Water is designed to give a profit to investors – because we are broke ! ..
So what has tax to do with it – IW is for the offshore investor or indeed the on-shore tax-dodging types as well !
I think Enda sold it on the New York Stock Exchange when Denis was over with him – when they floated Bord Gas – funny that if it’s true because that was definitely a case of putting an illegal Cart in front of an Irish Horse !
I know this is off topic but can anyone tell me why we are not allowed to comment on any story that relates to Denis o’ brien
You are Samuel, just not any stories relating to ongoing court cases – but that applies no matter who’s involved in them.
Thanks peter, what court case is on going in relation to sitserve as you are not able to comment on those either.
It’s enough to drive you to drink!
Change the brand Mr Walsh, may I suggest
“The Irishman and Waters Tears”
Irish Water have said that since Jan 14 planning developments have to apply separately to Irish water for permissions, etc, but this company got their approvals in 2013, BEFORE the new requirements
What moron though this up?
Surely someone in Irish Water could have picked up the phone to the local council and asked “yeah, you know that distillery in Carlow, what’s the deal with that?”.
Seriously!
Stop watering it down.
I suppose this distillery will be happy to oblige when its customers demand it’s product for free…?
I have a feeling this PR stunt may not come off in their favor, after all top shelf premium whiskey is certainly a luxury product. I can imagine the majority of its target market are right wing…
Still spewing bs an’Drew’? well at least you’re consistent.
Ah, the politics of envy.
Leave whisky out of it
He needs to round up a mob, block the roads and roar ‘peaceful protest’.
have your say