and a civil servants belly

500 lines for you tonight ! – I must not slag off Herr Noonan in public.

And a neck of the purest shiniest brass, or should that be the dirtiest jockey’s bollocks?

Noonan you may be rich but your one ugly man!!

“their own”?
Think you mean “our own”

We know what Derek means.

As much as I dislike Noonan. I think he is doing the right thing here. We need to cut all ties with Greece or risk contagion if Greece pulls out of the single currency depending on their vote in the coming months. He is doing it slightly too brash for my likings.

I agree..and despite the EU being aware of this they still allowed them to join up. Now where’s the bloody sense in that?

Geo-politics overrules economics

Greeces economic problems result from it’s inability to collect taxes?
This ignores some other important factors. Sustaining a bloated, spendthrift, rent-seeking state sector incentivises the growth of the black economy, while stunting the growth of the official economy and frightens off potential inward investment.
Raising marginal tax rates to excessive levels and introducing a slew of stealth taxes has the same effect.
Even senior figures in the Bundesbank and IMF have come to recognize that the ECB’s loose monetary policies, prior to the crisis, contributed to the credit fuelled boom/bust in periphery economies.
In 2001, Russia abandoned progressive taxation in favour of a single flat rate tax. As a result, Russia saw it’s tax revenues increase by 25% and a marked increase in compliance. This programme was seen as such a marked success that since eleven other European nations have adopted flat rate taxation.
http://www.voxeu.org/index.php?q=node/941

‘ O’Reilly

Two things.

Greece’s poor rate of tax collection from the elites & many businesses was fully known before they were accepted to join the Euro.

The beneficiaries of this were & are a minority of the Greek people & they are mostly +not+ the ones suffering now from mass unemployment & soup kitchen austerity.

Then there’s the matter of the massive defence spending, near all of it to the benefit of Germany. For example the fleet of state-of-the-art submarines.

It’s the same story all over Europe. No accountability or consequences for the elites & their clown political leaders whilst the burden of a failed Euro experiment continues to be placed solely on ordinary citizens.

We should vote NO & keep voting NO until the real issues are addressed & we can all get politicians who actually represent the interests of the majority.

Issues like why Greece, a mere 2% of Eurozone GDP, apparently threatens the stability of the global financial system. Who is responsible for this & why is it not being addressed near 5 years after the crash?

I heard on the radio over the weekend that the corruption in Greece is on a level that would put CJH’s wildest and wettest dreams in the ha’penny place.
Cash to triage nurses on the spot, 1200 to 1500 cash on the spot to see a consultant.
There’s obviously no shortage of money over there, just their whole economy seems to be blacker than pitch.

Mike, can you be a little bit clearer about who these “politicians we can get who represent the majority are”? I thought we had them already…

O’Reilly we all thought that’s what we were getting.
Turns out that they were sheep in wolves clothing!

Collectively Sean, the still have a strong majority despite being exposed…

No-one will happily out up with someone who doesn’t buy their round. It should be obvious that Greece is not a good role model for crisis resolution.

Quite a few people have commented that Ireland is the laughing stock of Europe. I follow the German-language and English-language European media ( part of my job ), and, despite what people might say, this isn’t true. Quite simply, there’s very little focus on Ireland and the referendum. The referendum is important to Ireland, not to the EU. Greece has been taking heavy flak in the media over the last 18 months, Ireland has not. Yes, German language media is quite patronising when speaking about Ireland but, to be honest, German-language media is patronising to all countries they consider to be at a lower level ( and that’s pretty much everyone ). Ireland has NOT been singled out for ridicule. Saying it has comes either from being misinformed or rabble-rousing. It’s a good sound-bite, but unless you can prove it’s true…

And look where that got them. Unemployment far higher than even ours and ordinary families queuing at soup kitchens. That’s what the nihilist vote NO crowd in Sinn F?in, Republican Sinn F?in, the Socialist Party, the Socialist Workers Party, the Peoples Movement, United Left Alliance and Nigel Farages UKIP?would have for us here cos it advances their self serving revolutionary agenda.

Tom think you will find that the surge in unemployment and the opening of soup kitchens all occured while New Democracy & PASOK and of course the unelected prime minister Papademos were in power.Whats happening in Greece has nothing to do with radical left wing or right wing parties.

Tom you know nothing

Agreed

Rodigo have some cop on Micheal noonan is not an embarrassment He s the one fella telling it as it is. You do his job for and see how you get on for a day

Daniel, Noonan just does what he is told. The Germans/French are not ratifying the Fiscal Compact, and yet Noonan and his group of cohorts are blindly following through with the referendum, even though we do not fully know what the final compact will look like. For all we know, once we have it put in our constitution, the Germans and French may agree that its too Austere (and based on O’Bamas plea at the G8 summit at the weekend, that is very likely to be the case). So while Ireland will have it written into its constitution that we cannot exceed the metrics outlined in the treaty as it currently stands, all the other countries in Europe could very possibly be working to a different set of metrics and constraints. This is just idiocy. There is zero logic to proceeding with this referendum as it is, until we know in full detail what the plan is for the rest of Europe. But i am sure that the FFg/Labour/FF commentators are going to say that its still necessary, even though the rest of the world has woken up to the fact that dictating these type of constraints are just crazy and will do nothing to grow the economies around Europe. Wake up, Vote No, and if necessary, allow a re-run in the future, once the entire picture and landscape has been fully outlined for all the people of Ireland to see what they are signing up for.

You have to go back to the mid 17th Century to attribute England as the instigator of any European conflict of any particular size. The Spanish have been more antagonistic.

There is no ‘move’ to property taxes and water charges David. They are being added on top of the taxes people already pay for water and property.

It’s a long term move. With these taxes in place we’ll be in a position to reduce income taxes once our budget is balanced again.

And so the distancing from the plight of the ordinary greek people continues. It’s their own fault they use “bad” austerity while us clever Irish have “good” austerity?
If you think “back handers” and “jobs for the boys on all levels” are peculiarly greek then you need to get out more David.

Actually David, the recommendation was to make the property tax revenue neutral but your buddies in fine gael need to squeeze every last penny out of us for the bankers. The only time ordinary peoples taxes are coming down is when a party who represents ordinary peoples interests are elected, not your lot.

“With these taxes in place we’ll be in a position to reduce income taxes once our budget is balanced again.”

This is the same error FG/Labour made in 1982. Increasing taxation is more economically damaging than reducing spending.
In 82, Fitzgerald/Dukes saw the economy continue to contract and returns fall as they increased rates and introduced new taxes. Basically, they brought about a fiscal tail-chasing exercise. Which caused further economic contraction, falling revenues and increasing unemployment.
Lessons from Russia’s 2001 taxation reforms.
http://www.voxeu.org/index.php?q=node/941

I was told from a Greek mate of mine that many people are only carrying handguns in his town. Not well placed. Not a socialist paradise.

I was told by someone to vote yes to Lisbon as it was yes for jobs……..

See where I’m going with this one…..

By the way did I ever tell you that if you buy a lotto ticket at 3.21 pm on Thursday that you will win!!! I’m telling you it’s true!!

I’d be inclined to believe my friend, but that’s just me. No reason why anyone one else should, based on a comment here. But life in Greece is going to be a lot worse before it gets better, and all those who have been shouting that we should follow Greece’s example are going to go very quiet over the next few months.

That post makes me wanna vote yes.

Did you come up with that on your own? It’s not very good.

Why is critical discourse of German economic thinking by lazy commenters always linked to Nazi imagery? It’s the equivalent of Germans comparing our attempts to renegotiate our bank about debt obligations as drunks worming their way out of paying the tab. In both cases it is wrong There is enough reality and fact based concerns and issues available to argue the side for a yes or no vote in the upcoming referendum without jingoistic stereotypes being lazily thrown out.

Shouting doesn’t replace data. Easy to capitalise, not so easy to back up what you’re saying.

As a summary of the reasons to vote “No”, it’s elegantly accurate.