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THE ISLAND OF Ireland can expect to hit a population of 10 million before 2050 – and people should “embrace” that growth, the head of the country’s biggest business lobby group says.
But Ibec chief executive Danny McCoy today told the organisation’s CEO Conference at Dublin Castle the government has to act now to boost infrastructure spending to cope with future demand.
He said on current trends the population across the island would pass 10 million before the second half of the century and that carried with it “a range of new and exciting opportunities, but also challenges”.
“We have to start planning now, and set out clear, ambitious, but realistic objectives,” he said.
McCoy said big infrastructure gaps in health, transport, education and energy needed to be fixed as a priority, as did the shortage of available housing.
As it stands, we’re not investing nearly enough,” he said.
The total population across the island of Ireland currently stands at about 6.6 million, including an estimated 4.8 million people in the Republic.
However the most-recent projections from the CSO forecast the population in the south alone could swell to 6.7 million by 2046.
That figure is based on Ireland’s fertility rate – currently the highest in the EU – remaining steady and net immigration of 30,000 people a year.
‘No appetite’ for national pay agreements
McCoy, whose group represents many of the country’s biggest firms, said wage pressures had started to re-emerge as the economy improved but many companies were still in survival mode and they “simply cannot afford pay rises”.
“Given this backdrop, business has no appetite for a return to one size fits all national pay agreements,” he said.
This year we have the chance to further cut unemployment and attract back migrants that left during the crisis, but we must not repeat past mistakes. If costs spiral and we lose our competitive edge, we will pay for it in jobs.”
The government recently launched the Low Pay Commission to look at raising the minimum wage, which has not been raised above €8.65 per hour since 2007.
McCoy also called on the government to cut income taxes with the highest marginal rate of 51% described as a “barrier to investment and job creation” and a “serious disincentive to work” when compared to other developed countries.
We need to be smart, nimble and ambitious. And we need a relentless focus on competitiveness. Something we lost to our detriment during our last growth phase.”
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A greater population would be good if it’s spread around. As it is, Dublin is already a joke in terms of roads, public transport and rents. Also wouldn’t mind seeing a more stringent immigrating policy like Australia where only the skilled migrants get to stay long term.
Definitely concur. We don’t want no hopers or dole bulgers or extremists on our soil. If you any of these fcuk off
Have you seen the requirements for a work permit in Ireland? Highly skilled occupations only, you can’t get a work permit for a job paying less than €30k per year, unless you’re being taken on by a high tech company for €27k or higher.
Anyone who has EU citizenship can live in Ireland.
Time to close the borders – this is pure E.U. economics and has nothing to do with the G.A.A. !
Until the Iirsh change their minds GURU – Our treatment by the Troika proves that Ireland is still an Independent Sovereign State – We can leave the E.U. whenever we want !
War in the Ukraine will be like 1916 all over again – Germany’s Difficulty will be Ireland’s opportunity !
Lots of people are going to fall for the idea of better infrastructure and services.
This is straight from the Bilderberg handbook.
Mass immigration is great for business.
Business essentially controls politics. It’s called “lobbying” and he who pays the piper….
Unfortunately, the reality is that mass immigration pushes training and welfare costs onto the taxpayer.
But that doesn’t affect business and politicians are too stupid to see this.
Where we live the population is 11% in decline from one census to the next. The only way that I can see the national population increasing is if we open the flood gates to immigration and create more jobs.
Stop the floodgates of emigration ..
Ireland no longer trains carpenters since Britain got ccheaper Polish Builders but we still train Irish girls for the boat and to nurse in Britain’s hospitals at a cost to the Irish Taxpayer of 90,000 per head while agencies fill our hospitals with foreign nurses !
It seems the crazy economics of Dail Eireann suits the British very nicely and Prince Andrew being what he is !
Chris you are wrong as usual
We had about 10m before the famine. Thats why they left us starve, we were a threat again.
Chris,
We have opened the floodgates to immigration. Where are the jobs?
Correct Joe and now there are 6 million of us in England and we tuned to “Suffer little children ” – Prince Andrew is very bad news for the longevity of the Monarchy – look at Morrissey for example .
If the UK manage to circumvent that little clause of open borders with their referendum in 2017, we might be able to do the same using the arguments of wanting to keep our free travel area with Britain. We absolutely should be more selective in who can live long-term here – those with skills can contribute to the economy better as a whole.
chris ,
there are 8000 pps numbers issued to foreign workers every Month in Ireland , even though we have hundreds of thousands of unemployed people .
if the population in your area is in decline , its probably because the young folk have been forced to emigrate as a result of a saturated Jobs Market here in Ireland.
how are unemployed people in Ireland ever going to get back to work when so many jobs are being filled by Immigrant workers .
lets get Irish People off the Dole and back to work , in the process the state will reduce its social welfare spending , think of all the money being saved on housing benefits , medical benefits , unemployment assistance etc , all these economic benefits that will be gained by controlling immigration
Open your eyes Jay, there is plenty of work and the government tell us that there is more on the way. So where are the skills going to come from if the Irish don’t fill them.
I may be wrong in your head mat, but then we can’t sit around waiting for the sun to shine either.
Again Chris the opposite of what you’re saying is true
Henceforth those who propose the Plantation of Eire will be considered her enemies – our history teaches what planters are like !
You are wrong there Hermes, it was the planters who histoically created employment typically with skills to begin the Irish linen industry and introducing advanced farming methods while the Irish were still using medieval ways of tilling the land.
Population growth and stretched resources are one of the planets biggest threats and if anything we should be trying to keep it stable. But as usual business lobby groups are only thinking about one thing, €£$¥! Sher screw the planet, as long as I’ve a few extra customers and a few extra bob in my pocket, who cares about the future of planet earth.
What do you suggest
One child per family.
Euthanasia of the old, sick & poor.
Permission to have children.
Tying the tubes of woman who have siblings who are criminal or insane.
You wouldn’t be the first person who suggested implementing these sort of ideas.
Red thumb all you want but these are the things the elite want implemented to curb population growth.
Their words not mine.
Do you always make such enormous leaps with your comments? Only an absolute deluded individual would not recognise human population as a real threat to humanity. I believe population control will become a real thing in our lifetime. This does not mean we’ll be euthanising or embracing any of your dramatics, it merely means we will have to control the population or face extinction.
I’m clearly pointing out the measures the elite would prefer too use.
Unfortunately the babyboomer generation have created a pyramid scheme of a socialist society… More working young people and immigrants are needed to support the 50+ generation as they get old, retire, live longer and get sick.
There’s going to be one hell of a global political shift away from socialism once generation X, Y and the millennials start to exceed the babyboomers in voting power cushioned slightly by the fact that the young are disillusioned and don’t vote…
Glen is taking pretty wild leaps… The elite top 5-10% are scared population growth in established countries, continental Europe, Japan, Scandinavia won’t be enough to pay their pensions…
Ireland has less to worry about
Drew
The elite I’m talking about are
Royal families
Banking families/cartels
Big business owners
You think they have a personal pension plan.
Aaah Glen… Got you now… The annointed and the Rothschilds… Where is Frank now
@Diarmuid
“We’re all consumer units in their greedy little race” – Dougie Maclean.
Sigh… Crazy leftie fanatic. Such people aren’t plotting against you in some conspiracy.
But to answer your question… Regardless of no personal pension, their retirement wealth is subject to taxation and any future changes to rates and policies voted in by later generations.
Glen
How about stopping mass migrations and corporate sponsored governments.
10 million would be a much more functional population for a landmass of our size. We struggle to provide infrastructure equal to that of many of our European counterparts and our sparse population is undoubtedly one of the largest contributing factors (along with mismanagement), and while it is true that our planet is overpopulated Ireland has absolutely zero impact on this issue, why should we sacrifice the benefits of doubling our population which would still then only be classed as that of a Mega City. If you have issues with overpopulation take it up with India and China.
The problem is the fertility rate although the highest in Europe is still below replacement. This guy is talking about turning the place into London – where already the local English are a minority. These people want to turn this country into a low trust multiracial hellhole essentially in the name of ‘business’.
Ireland’s Agricultural sector would have to function much more efficiently and profitably for population levels to start returning to pre-famine levels.
Opening up USA and Chinese markets for prime Irish cuts of beef is a major first step in the right direction.
By intensifying sustainable and profitable farming activity you improve the chances of economic survival for local towns and villages.
In addition, smaller farmers should be better supported by EU to help keep those rural communities alive and facilitate efforts to make Ireland the leading breadbasket to UK, Europe and beyond.
Motorway network in Ireland is top class and almost complete regarding major towns and cities. Rural broadband is next for the nationwide infrastructural shave and a haircut…positive developments already in train here also.
Also, investment capital is plentiful for the right ventures, so more Kerry Groups, Glanbias, should be possible for spawning out of growing local co operatives closely aligned to R & D departments of our excellent Third level institutions with an agricultural bias.
Ireland’s population would now be about 1 million higher if sustainable business was better promoted from mid nineties onwards instead of the-powers-that-be sleep walking to the cliff in allowing construction grow to unsustainable 25% of GDP by 2007.
It’s such a pity that 200,000 + of our youngest and brightest had no choice but to emigrate since 2008 due to lack of economic opportunity on home soil.
Diarmaid you say we will have to control the population then rip glen when he lists methods of population control with suggesting any yourself? How would you “control the population? I shudder to think given your extreme view points on other issues.
^ It’s called family planning & contraception. The only “interference” should be education.
Nothing we do is a threat to the planet. The planet will be here long after us. What we do is a threat to us.
Actually you’re wrong there Diarmaid in respect to population growth. Let Hans Rosling the foremost authority on the subject explain it to you. http://www.gapminder.org/videos/dont-panic-the-facts-about-population/
Also the population of Ireland is ageing, as with the rest of Europe so immigration and population growth are to be encouraged.
The Ice Caps and the Himalayan snow are melting, the rainforest and the Great Barrier Reef are being wiped out, almost have of species have gone extinct in the last 40 years, massive droughts in North America and Africa, 1 Billion people are malnourushed and IBEC want to increase our environmental impact by 250%.
To someone who can see beyond money it’s horribly depressing.
Aren’t you so great now you can see beyond money. You are truly great! Get off your high horse!
Yes it’s tragic what’s going on but there are measures being put in place to eradicate poverty. Our understanding of our climate has gotten better in the last few years and now it’s clear that man is responsible for half (not all) of Global Warming and unfortunately we’ve already crossed the Rubicon and extreme weather conditions are here to stay. Stop talking about diagnosis and offer some solutions.
How exactly to you arrive at the figure of 250%?? the population of the republic of Ireland is 4.58 million. We’re talking about doubling it. That’s an increase of 100%. So you’re going to provide your own state pension so are you? good man!
Wise up and listen to an expert on the topic Hans Rosling http://www.gapminder.org/videos/dont-panic-the-facts-about-population/
@ Glen. ..I do worry about you!!
I don’t see how increasing the population by almost 2 1/2 times is part of the solution, particularly as it’s runaway population growth over the last 150 years that has largely caused the problem.
If you see human beings as economic units whose function it is to add to the overall wealth of society then of course we should increase population as much as we can, we should both be getting people pregnant right now rather than discussing the matter here, but if you see us as being complex organisms interacting with a fragile environment then a declining population is what we need.
Sadly, IBEC and their ilk belong to the former category rather than the latter.
Nobody’s talking about increasing the population by 2 and 1/2 times the 10 million can be achieved through immigration. That’s relocating people not increasing population. The global population is leveling out and will eventually decline (watch the video)
Why relocate people when it would mean building millions of houses here and leaving millions empty in places like Poland? It’s just as easy for American corporations to move directly there, and it was cause much less disruption all round.
I would have green-thumbed this if it wasn’t for the word “multiracial”…racial mixing isn’t bad in itself, its just that we can’t sustain the level of immigration that IBEC is hoping for.
Nobody’s talking about forced relocation it will be people’s choice to move within Europe as they do now. It’s important for the future of this country to be open to immigration. What are you on about Poland for? their economy is improving , they’ll be fine. What’s this nonsense about empty houses and corporations ??Stick to the point. Global population is leveling out and will eventually plateau and decline. Time for you to do some new research and stop reeling off the old view.
It seems to me that all the new jobs in the country are being provided by American Corporations, we are constantly told that if we put corporation tax up by a fraction they would all move elsewhere. It’s obviously more complex than that, but we are heavily dependent on inward investment.
There are a huge number of empty houses in places like Poland and the Baltic states as so many young people have moved west in search of a better life…I never said anything about forced migration.
Multi-nationals only employ 10% of the work force so you’re wrong there. I agree we should raise corporation tax and I don’t buy the line about “they’ll move their jobs”. Tax evasion is the name of the game they might move their holding company but not the jobs. There’s too many other factors at play. Location, language, how we conduct ourselves in business etc and of course the corporate tax rate it might be 12.5% but they pay an effective rate of 2.5% which is scandalous.
I’m glad there’s one thing we agree on…Ireland shouldn’t be a tax haven but most of the growth in the economy and the subsequent perceived need for inward migration between 1993-2007 was driven by ultra-low corporation tax with corporations often allowed to write their own loopholes.
It’s an EU wide issue. The loopholes don’t just exist here. A trillion a year is lost to tax evasion from corporations. A trillion! to put that in context the total cost of the bank bailout EU wide was 560 billion. To think what we could achieve with an extra trillion, a year! When they don’t pay the buck gets past to everyone else.These are the people that are destroying our planet both climate wise and economically and I don’t think it’s fair to blame the average person who was up-til recently in the dark on the topic. Added to the fact that new evidence shows the global population will plateau and decrease. The corporations are the villains on all fronts and just because they support 10% of the Irish work force doesn’t mean they should be absolved of responsibility.
Just to add currently there’s approx 2 million people working and supporting the rest of the country. This needs to increase whether you agree with it or not. We need to increase our work force and population significantly as currently the population is ageing and without an increase in Ireland things are going to get dire currently there’s 5 working people to every pensioner. Without an increase in workforce that will be 2 to 1 in 30 years and just isn’t sustainable. Forced health insurance is only the start, people will be forced to sort out their own pensions next without state support. So consider that and how you’ll soon care about money when you no longer have much of it! It’s all well and good being an idealist but you’ll be humming a different tune if you were living in poverty and being made homeless add to the fact that your views on population growth are outdated and incorrect.
Honestly. That’s such a load of clap-trap I had to comment. We don’t even know how many species exist. A short expedition to the bottom of the sea, or the floor of the rain forest invariably throw up species which we’ve never seen before. The Earth cools, the Earth gets warm again. The Earth cools, the Earth gets warm again. Did you read any texts in School about what ‘Ice Ages’ were? People who bleat on about Climate change are ‘flat-earthers’. Idiots, morons or gainfully employed in industries which provide them with jobs based on their bizarre theorem. Of course the climate is fcuking changing. It’s supposed to. To think that we have anything to do with (on the grand scale of things) is utter, utter conceit.
Thats an additional 1 million immigrants by 2050 then. Hopefully they are allowed to immigrate based on what the economy needs so they can work and contribute to paying off the debt, rather than pretending to be refugees and just adding to it.
Unless of course the government makes it financially viable to raise a family in Ireland. Currently the costs of education and childcare are simply too high to promote the growth of the native population.
The powers that be will have us a minority in our own country in my lifetime. They have no mandate for this. In fact, every opinion poll conducted showed us that the Irish people want a more stringent immigration policy.
In 2001 our foreign born population was just under 5%.
In 2011 our foreign born population was 17%. What will it be by 2021,2031,2041 and 2051?
The only way to raise huge numbers of children is on the welfare. No ordinary decent law abiding, tax paying citizen can afford to raise properly educated children in big numbers(such as it’s my culture and your all going to pay me for propagating 15 brats). the costs associated with raising children are putting many hard WORKING families to the brink of poverty.
“just pretending to be refugees” who is this referring to?
Tens of thousands of bogus Asylum Seekers attracted by our ‘free lunch Social Welfare System ‘
The UK is destroyed because of a lax immigration policy. This has led directly to the rise of UKIP. The same is going to happen here. There will be major friction between indigenous Irish and immigrants over the next 5 – 10 years. This is all a policy of forcing pay and working conditions down.
Yeah!!!!
Even when it was the bears I knew it was the Immi-gants!
Contribute! Yer havin’ a laugh! They come here to get something out of it for themselves, free ride, whatever. Your living in a fantasy land if you think any immigrant comes here to better Ireland, their here to better their pockets or passport symbol
“Any immigrant”? I’ve been living and working without interruption in Ireland for over six years now, paying my taxes etc and I am considered an immigrant. Don’t generalise. There are many of us working harder than some irish people.
Geesche you’re wasting your time. I work with many highly qualified Immigrants from other EU states. They’re hard working and very capable. They contribute. I know what some people are getting at here but it is far too generalised and simply comes across as bigotry on the part of some. A better immigration policy? Sure I agree. All immigrants are spongers? Utter drivel and nonsense. Some are and so are some Irish. Most work hard and are here to better themselves. Having said that, a national debate is long overdue on immigration policy.
@Live Long, I have my own business, is a distributor of electronic components, all our sales are to customers abroad, to manufacturers across Europe and Asia, and yes, we even sell to the Chinese,exports. I employ 4 people and 1-2 indirectly. all of them Irish. I am just hoping you’re grown up enough to change that statement of ” if you think ANY immigrant comes here to better Ireland” and delete the word ANY, because, just with my case, the word ANY no longer applies.
“Don’t generalise.”
Then you go on to say;
“There are many of us working harder than some irish people.”
Lol. Regardless, yes, there are tens of thousands of hard working and capable immigrants in Ireland. They are a benefit to the country. Ireland will always need some level of inward immigration to fill gaps in our labour market. Very few would dispute this.
On the flipside, there are tens of thousands here on the mooch. There are over 60k on Jobseekers allowance. That’s a non contributory payment. So either they didn’t pay in or already exhausted their stamps. We have a social housing crisis. Is it any wonder, when we have 30k non Irish families on the social housing list? 39% of those in receipt of rent allowance, are non Irish. We have an asylum system that is not fit for purpose and widely abused. We have a situation for 1/3 of all non EU students are here illegally. We were labelled the “sham marriage capital of Europe” and the Council of Europe urged us to legislate against such marriages for visa purposes. We have yet to do so.
IBEC want us to bring in another one million immigrants. That would be suicidal. We need to fix the problems we have with the ones already have first.
In 2012 there were 956 applications for asylum in Ireland, in 2013 there were 946. Since 1992 there have been 88,199 so over the course of OVER 2 DECADES there have been tens of thousands of applications, be they from genuine or bogus refugees. If we don’t have the minimal amount of humanity to help that tiny number of people then we shouldn’t bother bullshitting ourselves that we are decent people.
I totally agree with you Jay, but to go from “many of them” to “all of them” is a huge difference, all of them means 100% and just with my case is 99.999% which is no longer “all of them”
Jay McGregor, you refer to people being on Jobseeker’s Allowance as proof that they never worked in Ireland. The rules are that if you have never paid tax in Ireland then you can’t claim any welfare. Not unless you are aged 16/17/18 and have just left school.
If you are self-employed and your work dries up you cannot claim Jobseeker’s Benefit, you can only apply for Jobseeker’s Allowance. Or if you haven’t found employment by the time your Benefit runs out then you can apply for the Allowance, which is means tested.
That’s not a tiny amount of people. It’s roughly two percent of our population. Then add in their kids. Then their extended families (chain migration) etc. Tiny amount, indeed.
As for having to have a previous work history in the state to avail of JA, please cite your sources.
I found this:
To get Jobseeker’s Allowance you must be aged over 18 and under 66. You must also:
Be unemployed (you must be fully unemployed or unemployed for at least 4 days out of 7)
Be capable of workBe available for and genuinely seeking work
Satisfy the means test
Meet the Habitual Residence Condition
You can read more about the conditions for getting a jobseeker’s payment and about the employment services the Department of Social Protection offers to jobseekers.
Jay your argument is very one sided, do you not realise that Ireland needs immigration to counter the outflow of Irish going abroad to live. To enable our fiscal sovereignty we need to create a balance here to pay off the national debt and support an ageing population.
Immigration of high skilled individuals, those competent in numerous languages and entrepreneurs is without a doubt a benefit to Ireland. We need to encourage more of it. Immigration of low skilled workers, dole bludgers and the unemployable definitely is not. I can differentiate between the two groups. With 400k plus on the scratch, we definitely need to discourage and curb the latter.
Good thing to have new good looking people populate our country. Let’s face it a very hot Irish girl is not all that common. Oh every town has them but rare and they know it.
10 a penny in Poland Netherlands and Ukraine.
We may yet become a society of beautiful people
@ Charles McD Their’s plenty of hot irish girls Charles, it’s just the gormless orcs like yourself who say there aren’t any to justify your virgin status.
Jay, that is the total figure for applicants, not for everyone who actually received refugee status. Plus that is still a tiny figure spread through the population, it is dwarfed by the number of English people living here (the biggest expat community in Ireland), never mind the number of Irish people who emigrated in the last 7 years.
As for the JA, the key is the Habitual Residence Condition. You have to show that you have a strong connection to Ireland, e.g. previous employment here, you were born and raised here, that kind of thing. You can’t just move here and claim JA because you won’t satisfy the Habitual Residence Condition. Even Irish people moving home after several years abroad are sometimes refused JA due to the HRC.
@Live Long nice way to go not to reply to my comment, I guess you have nothing to say, you can still be a man and realise the absurdness of your 100% generalisation. Specially from someone who has Leonard Nimoy’s picture as a profile picture when he was the son of Ukrainian Immigrants, first generation. He is Ukrainian by blood. You’re glorifying an immigrant. I tough they were all no good takers looking for a free handout…
Ronan, you have been reading too much Ukip rubbish. The UK has had immigration since the Romans followed by the Saxons, Vikings and Normans. Ukip spout a load of rubbish about immigration from the EU, but conveniently forget that most of the UK’s immigration since WW2 has come from Commonwealth countries and they are contributing significantly to the UK economy.
The largest immigrant group in the state are the Polish. As per the census 2011.
88k is absolutely not a small number and very few people get physically deported from the Irish state. Jan 2007 and Dec 2012, just over 2k were deported. Tha included illegals, criminals upon serving their sentence and faiked asylum seekers. On average, we deport just circa 350 per annum. Feck all, in otherwords.
We have 90k on the housing list. 30k of them are non Irish. We have over 60k non Irish on a non contributory welfare payment. Then factor in those on back to work allowance, disability allowance, back to education allowance, the child benefit paid out to kids non resident, medical cards, rent allowance(39% of all recipients are non Irish) and a whole host of other benefits and not a pretty picture does it paint. We are talking billions of euro in added expenditure here.
We have one of the highest foreign born populations, per capita, in the EU. As per the UNs migration report 2013. Higher than the UK, France, Spain, Italy, the Netherlands, the US and Germany.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_immigrant_population
Which is a staggering stat, when we consider that we had very little immigration up until the late 90s. There are problems already with immigration and our rather lax policies. If we ignore them and bury our heads we will have major, major problems down the line. If we ignore them and import another million immigrants, welp, I think that will be suicidal. Not that IBEC give a damn about the social costs.
Chris,
A recent report found that non EU immigration cost the UK just under £120 billion. Contributing, indeed.
Jay, what is your problem over foreign born people living and working here. Most of them pay their taxes like everyone else. Have you been to a hospital lately and guess what the doctor is probably foreign too. Will you tell them no thanks I prefer to be treated by an Irish doctor.
Actually Jay the biggest immigrant group living in the Republic are British born. Same with the biggest numbers of tourists coming to this country are 40% from Britain, 35% from Europe and just 18% from the US. So stop being a little islander and face up to realities.
The largest immigrant group in the state are the Polish. Look up the most recent census, like a good man.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/british-overtaken-as-polish-population-doubles-26837812.html
I’ve never criticised highly skilled immigration into Ireland. Au contraire, I welcome it. My issue is with the numbers, the high amount of low skilled immigrants and the high level of welfare dependency amongst some.
Chris ,
let me get this straight .
you say we need to bring in immigrants to replace our emigrants .
hmm.. lets suppose for one second that the reason an irish person emigrates is because he cannot get a job , lets suppose that 8000 pps numbers to foreign workers every month is a factor in the Irish Person not being able to get a Job .
if that irish person cannot even get a job in ireland , why then would you want to bring in more people looking for Jobs and make the problem even worse for everybody ???
They government can’t even take care of 4 million properly
It’s not the job of the government to “take care” of you. You’re an adult, take care of yourself. There’s too many people with your attitude
Silver Planet, JohnPaul O’Dea just used a phrase. Get off your high horse will ya?
The entire country needs to be geared up for a growing population and not just Dublin or Cork (do they still think it’s the real capital?) During the boom thousands left the capital to live in the midlands, north east and south east, with the idea of living in a country environment. Years later there’s no infrastructure, no public transport, entire villages closed down.
The idea of the govt departments, civil service etc. being spread around the country makes sense. If everything is going to be built in Dublin, or any other major city then the rest of the country will suffer. You might as well put a wall around the midlands and call it The Badlands.
Without being an expert on history but if my memory serves me well before the great famine the Irish population was equal to45% of the population of our nearest neighbour .
You’re right Paul, our population was over 8 million and half of that was lost through emigration and death. It’s bizarre to think that it never recovered in all the years since.
Pre famine Ireland’s population was probably about 12 million people. We can easily support a much higher population density but we will have to plan it properly. And it would mean we could properly afford a decent social protection system
Just before the famine started the population of Ireland was 243 billion. I know this as my aunt told me and she read a book on the topic a few years ago. It does appear that the population is rising rapidly but I genuinely doubt it will ever reach these levels again.
Yeah but it was 8 million very poor living in horrible conditions
You could be right Paul, but historically then the Irish formed around a third of the manpower for the British army and navy and we were doing our bit to exploit everyone else.
It’s true but England is insanely overpopulated…it only produces around 1/6th of it’s own food, and has to import nearly all of it.
If we ate less meat, lived in smaller houses, didn’t drive as much, had less clothes and gadgets, we could sustainably have more people but our government don’t seem to care that much about the future of the planet.
The dregs and vagabonds,of Eastern Europe are on the way,or should I say more of them.
The population of Ireland was over 8 million people just before the famine period. However, this was twice as much as there was 60 years or so before that. It grew at extraordinary rates and became have the size as the population of England and Wales at the time. Then.. we have a famine…
All ya need to do is to increase social welfare payments and children’s allowance and just watch our country expand with lazy good for nothing dole sucking wasters.
Hopefully not. What a disaster and a horrible little place Ireland would be.
Hell.
The reason countries like Ireland New Zealand Australia Canada etc are great places to live is becaee their population densities are low.
Now people who think 10 million I’m the Rep of Irl would be good are fools. Life will be a queue. Motorways never free, every road in the east of the country would be m50 rush hour non stop.
With our approach to planning Dublin city would be touching westmeath. House upon house with nothing much else.
This guys totally deluded, the infrastructure cant even support the population NOW. Crumbling water pipes, hospital waiting times at lethal levels, housing shortages, no de-centralisation away from Dublin etc etc. I suppose it would suit the business minded to make society something that resembles Soylent Green, more competition for jobs and rock bottom wages.
The bus will be packed so.
This unsustainable, we are consuming earths resources at an uncontrollable rate, for example our oil supplies are running low and alternative methods are been looked at for mining. In order for a population growth to be sustainable, we need to look at our current neo-classical model of economics as it’s this model that drives the economy and we need to shift to a more environmentally friendly model in order to make Ireland and the planet more sustainable for future generations.
I wonder when IBEC will feel the time i right for a wage increase?
Didn’t another arse in a suit come out with the same rubbish in 2005 to encourage more speculation, building sites and corruption?
Wasn’t that arse called Bertie Ahern?
Get tae fcuk man in suit.
Ten million !!! That’s a lot of halting sites
Big Business wants uncontrolled immigration for the cheap labour.
Ah sure that’d take an awful long time! 2314 days roughly….based on a 10 second embrace and embracing for 12 hrs a day.
The government should start expanding the hall sizes in the hospitals so to hold more trolleys.
Yikes! Already waiting a year for “urgent” surgery. Can only imagine how long one would have to wait if this is true of 2050!
Our island can easily sustain a population of 10 million, perhaps the biggest issue is the importation of fuel and energy, however we could lessen that problem by installing a nuclear power station or two if the hippies could get over their fear of it and if the politicans actually grew a pair of balls.
We could combine the the 2 and make a super plant. Can we put it where you live or would the rest of the community object?
Keelan I will happily live beside a nuclear power plant, I have stated that umpteen times on posts on this matter in the Journal!
Your only saying that because you want to be The Incredible Hulk.
10 million population by 2050?? I’ll have to remember to book a hospital appointment in 2045 cause with the Gobs***es in charge in Dáil Éireann it will take 5 years to one by then. Forward planning my hole!!!
The potential for Ireland’s economy at 10 million people is boundless.
Extra people is usually seen as a stretch on public resources but it actually gives us economies of scale. Larger schools, hospitals and transport hubs provide better services at a cheaper cost per person.
Energy is an issue for Ireland regardless of 5 vs 10 million people. The potential for our island in renewable energy is only increased with a larger population.
The immigration issue must be put in context of our economy activity. We have, as far as we can compare with other countries, a “smart” economy. By that I mean an economy with a large tech and pharma sector, meaning that a large component of future immigration would be skilled labour. Such workers would pay large sums of income tax.
We also have a huge emigrant population to bring home. Many of them came home during the last boom, nothing to say the same won’t happen again.
Full sure you’ve copied the plot of a Care Bears episode.
Ibec the employers union of course they want more immigration in to the country,As it means cheaper labour while displacing the Irish man/women of a job.
I have witnessed this before with employers hiring eastern Europeans on crap terms and conditions.
That is not true Dave, most employers don’t mind where the workforce comes from, they are mainly interested in productivity and profit after tax. Work is work and Irish people need to wake up to that fact and stop bitching about what other people are doing.
As long as they all clump together in the poor areas of the cities, with lots of self imposed segregation, I am fine with that. It works out well on other countries, right?
We can’t house or provide adequate levels of healthcare for the few million we already have……
Sure we will need at least 10million to pay the taxes that will be needed to fund all the ex politicians and quango members pensions!
We might as well start to implement Sharia law nowvwhile we’re at it.
Ireland has never returned to its pre-famine levels of population, not even throughout the “Celtic Tiger” era, during which there was mass immigration from Europe. With the government attitude today how can we support 10 million??? This number of people would be too great to be supported by available services and infrastructure. Dream on. Plus birth rates have reduced significantly! Unless someone is predicting a “Baby Boom”
The fact is that humans are absolutely incompatible with earth’s ecosystems.
More people equates to less natural life of the earth…
“The idea that humans are yet intelligent enough to serve as stewards of the Earth is among the most hubristic ever.” ― James E. Lovelock, The Revenge of Gaia.
So, I believe we would be saying good-bye to a large part of Ireland’s natural beauty – which is to a large degree related to the dearth of infrastructure and people living here.
Of course, there is a balance to be strived for – ecofascism is just another side of the same coin.
But IBEC do not care about balance. They care about one thing only.
I said much the same in reply to someone else’s comment before reading your post, my apologies.
If we immigrants leaves Ireland there will be no social welfare,a lot of Irish people are lazy they don’t wanna work.all you know is claims claims,just shut your big fat mouths
Ireland was here long before immigrants came chi-chi, by the way what ‘claim’ did you make on your visa/asylum application to live in Ireland?
Only 38% of Black Africans in Ireland work. So who exactly are the lazy ones?
Off you go Chi – Chi , we will manage without you
10m? F*ck off with that.
I fear the day,
If 10m is a realistic prospect the present rather generously sized housing estates will have to be looked at seriously for future developments.
The bigger our population the more influential and powerful Ireland becomes. Bigger the better.
Influence and power come from having a large successful economy like Germany and China. Bangladesh has a huge population but guess what….
Bangladesh actually has the 36th biggest economy in the world. Ireland has the 60th.
Blangladesh (157 million people) is a lot more influential than Eritrea (6 million ppl).
Yeah, let’s be more like Bangladesh.
That should be IBEC’s new slogan,
The bigger they come, the harder they fall Jack.
You idiots think swelling Ireland with 5 million third wordlers is a good idea. That will make Celts a minority in our own country. Think about what that will mean for your children when all they will be told is Black Lives Matter and Allah is the one true God. Pearse and Collins did not give their lives so that our precious country could be given way 100 years later. http://www.thecelticparty.org
Wow..the lack of common sense is unreal,
I would like to point out the world is in crisis with climate change on us now and the primary cause is overpopulation. We should be discussing ways of controlling population growth.
Cheers to the Catholic Church for the unsustainable family size
Where from, and will it be Shia law? Only joking lol.
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