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THE IRISH MORTGAGE Holder’s Organisation has taken the wraps off a new deal with two major lenders that could see borrowers become debt-free in three months.
The agreement with AIB and KBC Bank signals that the two lenders are open to consider an accelerated personal insolvency agreement on mortgage debt when a debtor agrees to surrender their home.
The term of the arrangement will be no longer than three months, shorter than current arrangments which the IMHO said generally last five or six years.
It would cover unsecured debt, for example credit card debt, as well.
‘Revolutionary’
IMHO director David Hall told TheJournal.ie that the new process is a “revolutionary opportunity” for people who are definitely in a position where they will lose their homes no matter what happens.
“This is very clean, very fast and very good for those people who are affected, who can get on with life.”
He estimated that there could be in the region of 4,000 people with unsustainable mortgages held by AIB and KBC who might be able to take advantage of the new arrangement.
With 20,000 people in risk of losing their homes, Hall said that he hoped other financial institutions would consider taking part in the scheme.
However, he said that there was little chance of Bank of Ireland, which has deployed a stringent approach to debt write-downs, joining the scheme.
I think there’s a greater chance of me becoming Taoiseach than there is of Mr Bouchers engaging in any meaningful discussion with any debtor advocates.
He criticised the Government for falling short when it comes to tacking the issue of unsustainable mortgages, saying that there is a “distinct failure” to deal with debt in a sustainable manner.
He said: “This structure will allow some real movement in the insolvency system, and more importantly, allow people in serious debt to avoid long term insolvency arrangements and bankruptcy terms”
This will allow individuals and families to have a fresh start and contribute to society quicker by becoming debt free through a formally binding, legislative framework.
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I must ask my bank manager if I can have a deal done. Never missed a payment on my mortgage. Have had to juggle a lot of bills but just about coping. No holiday no frills so I deserve some slack
I don’t see you getting anywhere tbh. As you say. You’re meeting your bills. You think the bank gives a toss how you meet that? If you want a deal, you have to document everything and be ready to play hard. You get nothing in Ireland without a brass neck or determination.
Ask your bank manager what bonus he received on loans now gone bad. That will give you a view into his/her business acumen and risk assessment.
Also ask him/her how much the pain on taxpayer funds lodged on his behalf into a pension fund.
Things could have been so much simpler ! You had one job,Alan ! Banks should never/ever had been allowed a Veto !
One BIG question that no banking institution seems willing to answer because it would blow the lid on this whole fiasco…
What is a SUSTAINABLE mortgage?
I see the KFC bank have denied any agreement of a 3 month bankruptcy deal, lets wait and see what AIB, say tomorrow
Expect big bank recapitalision after stress tests in the autumn. AIB, PTSB… you can see which banks are handing out money, they will be back for more. BOI is afloat, perhaps as the only one, and they do not do writedowns. This time they will go after savings, Cyprus style.
Ok,
2 banks with heavy exposure to loss making tracker mortgages see a way to rid themselves of these mortgages and sell the properties.
It’s an opportunity for some, but for those who want to keep their house, how does this “opportunity” affect their ability to negotiate with the bank?
Now that the banks have seen recovery in Dublin property prices, repossessions are more likely to be taking place. The banks know they have a much better chance of recovering the principal now.
Thanks Enda.
Based on peak prices theres not a chance of banks recovering anything near the principal plus any arrears due. But why would banks let you keep a property which they essentially own? Any repossessions now are based on cleaning balance sheets rather then recovering loses
How can you keep a house if you can’t afford to pay it and that there’s absolutely no chance of you paying it in future? This gives people the chance to hand in the keys of the house and walk away with a clean slate in a short period of time. It’s what people have been clamouring for since the collapse in house prices.
As for the banks making losses by exposure to tracker mortgages? If you’re paying your mortgage then you’re not in debt so they can’t kick you off your tracker. You can’t be made bankrupt if you’re not bankrupt! I don’t get what the relevance of that argument is at all.
Joe I do not agree at all, a friend of mine is trying to sell his house on a tracker and has had offers just 30k short of the loan value and the banks won’t let him sell, he can’t prove he can pay back the other 30k, does not qualify for insolvency and the banks are trying to get him to sign assisted voluntarily sale even after giving them 3 solid sale offers, that is the short version, if the banks wanted to clear their books they would have worked with him, the banks are doing what they want and not helping and the government let them, this guy never had a business, never had the fine life in the so called celtic tiger, just a victim of the recession and lost his job,
Joe,
Most mortgages are not peak prices.
The banks would let you keep a property which they own because thats how mortgages work in Ireland.
The reality for a homeless family is that renting a replacement home costs more than a mortgage repayment. So why would they choose to lose their home?
@ Willy. I don’t get your friends position, the bank won’t let him sell yet want him to sign an assisted voluntary sale. Sounds that they want him to sell up but through there procedures. And by work with him you more than likely mean forget about the 30k, did he put a repayment plan for the 30k to the bank along with the offers?
Willy,
Why dent your friend rent the house? If its a tracker mortgage surely the rent would cover it?
*doesn’t
Ya he can’t afford a repayment plan based on the numbers the bank have told him, as a matter a fact they told him he can’t afford the interest only, so based on that insolvency is out, when he sells he will have to rent and that will leave him with nothing, the banks are suitable g one thing and want him to do another, now if he has the house up for sale what more can he do apart from wait till the property market matures a little more so he can get the other 30k for the house, he has received a letter that they will start repossession process in the next 30 days, what kind of crap are they dishing out, if people can’t pay and they won’t let them sell even when they want to what do you do, he is still paying the interest only even now,
Might he be able to sell and get the overhang changed to unsecured debt?
Paul if he rents it is closed as income and he will loose his social payments, also then he has to rent it’s a catch 22 all the way
No they would t do that, as they say he cut repay, also said if they did the interest would increase to a normal loan rate,
Then he should take any job he can get and take in lodgers.
Paul, if the house was big enough with rooms to spare he would, he has a family 4 young children, he is looking for a job like 99% of the people that’s unemployed, it’s not like he has not been trying every angle, if only it was that simple hey, remember it’s not just unemployed people that can’t afford to pay the mortgage employed people are also in big troble
Yes Willy,
The working poor and trapped unemployed. I have sympathy for anyone in the situation your friend finds himself – and his family.
I grew up with the effects of my parents not owning a house they had paid for:
http://www.lawsociety.ie/Solicitors/Practising/Practice-Notes/Roche-v-Peilow-Follow-up-Deposits-and-Stage-Payments-on-New-Residential-Properties/#.U49gucxbks0
For this reason I’m not enamoured with the way the banks, the legal profession and the State operate with regard to property rights for the ordinary person.
It’s a lifetime battle to win in the face of difficult odds.
Paul, KCB have released a statement tonight saying they have not agreed a 3 month bankruptcy deal with anyone, AIB may have something to say tomorrow, watch this space, shame as it would have helped some people
I think this is an absolute disgrace. Whilst I fully support helping people on negative equity on property they should no way be allowed walk away from credit card or credit union debt from lifestyle choices. Not fair.
Better get on to the minister and ask them to change the regulations regarding what is and what is not unsecured debt. For sake of argument, say a credit card company was throwing credit to a girl 8 years ago when she was an impressionable 19 year old. She went and bought all the shoes. Now she’s €10,000 in debt, jobless for the past 5 years, and is going back to college. You think she should carry that €10k?
Ehh yes if course she should??? Otherwise who the hell else is going to pay for it? Me and you through your taxes because banks have to be recapitalised that’s who. Lame excuse impressionable 19year old. Where would that stop, some 50 year olds have less sense then 19 year olds. Age should not be a factor. Personal responsibility has to come in to play somewhere. She won’t do it again and should have to pay small amounts off until she is working. How would she ever be a responsible member of society if society sent out messages that it’s ok to blow 10k on shoes because she was “impressionable”. We all face temptation.
That was a general question. Just wanted to see if you would answer how I thought you would.
I suppose I’m more in favour of regulation and corporate responsibility than some. Thanks.
both have a part to play, hence why i have no problem supporting those in negative equity because of the lack of corporate responsibility and regulation because people were left with no choice when trying to buy a home because of the lack of it, however that cannot extend to lifestyle choices.
I’ve 7k at moment on credit card as I’ve basically used it to pay bills and food shopping for past 6 yrs with having so many cuts and the way husband gets paid and being made redundant etcetera I’ve no choice some weeks but use card… Killer but my kids have to eat
Which is exactly why people like you should be helped Susan. Hardly a lifestyle choice to eat and you certainly didn’t spend the 7k on shoes!
Susan, your not on your own, people you think has money haven’t a pot to piss into, I have don’t the same myself, just keep feeding the kids that’s what matters, nothing else, hope thi g turnaround for you soon
You acted stupidly and bought a house that you couldn’t afford …. now you cant pay the mortgage ‘no matter what happens’. The chances are you wouldn’t have been able to afford it without the crash, and at some point you would have been in this position. I have no sympathy for stupid people, even less for those that are greedy and stupid. It’s time we shed the delusion that people have a right to own a home, YOU DON’T!!! You may have a right to a roof over your head (debatable) but nothing in the constitution even hints that you have a right to own a family home. I think its time to grow up, take your medicine and suffer the consequences of your poor decision making. The reality is that the quick out option will have consequences… somebody will have to pay for it
You sound stressed.
So Master Kaye should their children also be put on the street? I doubt if the were consulted when their parents applied for a mortgage that was approved by a lending bank…..
Yeh you’ll have to pay for it..Happy Days!!!…Sorry if this comment seems Heartless,selfish,narrow minded..Its exactly how someone who was losing their home would feel after reading your comment ..Everyones circumstances are different not everybody was a wild west gin toting multiple property owner in the boom
then they should have rented
Nah, I don’t have a mortgage.
I won’t have to pay for it, I’ll be getting off this rock asap …. because I can … because I didn’t f#ck myself for life trying to keep up with the Celtic Tiger Pis$ing contest.
I bet you’re going somewhere original – like oz.
to work in construction / trade.
And get drunk.
In your gaa jersey.
And fight the locals.
You have mates there.
:D
I don’t work construction,
I don’t drink at all,
despise the GAA,
and have no interest in OZ and don’t know a soul in the place.
But you keep whinging on your barstool down at the local.
Maybe you’ll win on the horses and you can shut down your scrap yard and take a holiday on the costa del sol.
Do you have a trade? Where ya goin? What lucky country is getting the benefit of your hindsight?
Tbh, I’ve no idea what your bar stool / scrapyard/ horsies meander was about, so I propose we pretend that never happened. :D
You are witty! but in a patronizing douchey kind of way, tell me how did the beard implant go!
Master Kaye. Manners cost nothing. Useful tip for when you travel abroad.
Head up to AIB or BOI headquarters if you need release any excess energy.
Master Kaye, big high five mate, I know how you feel, these dumb idiots took out loans on their own and now are blaming ‘de banks de banks’ it’s tiring at this stage. I am glad every time I hear about another repossession, there should be 1000′s more but it’s slowly happening and these fools are finally getting removed out of the homes they illegally occupy.
Pause
Make this law
Proceed
Sure,
Introduce legislation that will adversely affect rights of ownership in favour of allowing banks speedier repossession.
Is it smart?
As an option for those who wish to be free in 3 months
Who opts to become homeless?
Maybe someone who’s €450k of a mortgage, other loans of €50k and walk away scot free of debt by handing over a house worth €250k
Yes they still need somewhere to live. But they’re debt free
This gives people a chance to start again in 3 months. It is a fast track option.
If you have enough of an income to rent a house but are drowning in debt with a 400k mortgage it is a great opportunity to get out of a hole and start getting on with life. Which benefits us all economically.
@SeanieRyan It’s a zero sum game, someone essentially walking away from their debts just passes the buck to someone else whether it would be depositors or taxpapers.It economically only benefits those that walk away, cause if you wanted to play that game give everyone 400k and tell them to forget about paying it back, under the “sure it benefits us all economically” Philosophy and see were it gets you.
And something tells me it this 3 month option was given more then likely to friends of the manager of the bank rather then some random individual, giving them a break with tax payers money.
Scrap Croke Park,
How do you think a homeless person with “other loans of €50K” will walk away scot free?
A deal with a bank to resolve a mortgage debt is not a “3 month bankruptcy” its a repossession arrangement. Other debts would remain, complicated by the fact that you would have become homeless.
Paul – the other debts, credit card etc, are dealt with via standard bankruptcy proceedings according to IMHO
No Joe.
It is called facing up to reality and going by the numbers, being grown up and not being scared witless by fear of someone up the road getting too good a deal or the bank managers son etc etc. Just looking at the numbers and doing what benefits the most of us.
This will happen one way or another, irregardless of how people feel.
We are finally starting to deal with problems in a grown up manner, things like this are the norm everywhere else because hiding from problems does not solve them.
There is no benefit to the tax payer or economy in dragging this out, there are many benefits, mostly financial in resolving them now.
Time to face problems, all you offer is stasis and decline and dragging problems out rather than resolving them.
Scarr,
Standard bankruptcy proceedings take 3 years. IMHO are talking about mortgage related debt relief – not “whole of life” debt relief. After walking away from your house, why would anybody go bankrupt for (in this example) €50k?
Yes, debt write of for some and miniature Ireland flags for others.
irregardless … not a word
Paul – my understanding from what I heard of the pat kenny interview today, was that the mortgage is cleared after 3 – 6 months. But credit card debt is effectively a seperate issue and is handled via the 3-6 year root. I guess you would want to have no job and little prospect to go bankrupt for 50k?
Scarr,
The point is that volunteering to surrender your home while continuing to face other ruinous debts is stupid. If paying credit cards €10 per month means you can keep making meaningful payments off your mortgage, then that is what you should try to do.
Equity in your home is an asset, and in time we can hope/expect to see the value of that asset to increase.
For people facing large negative equity, the question of affordability remains. If renting is going to cost as much as your mortgage, you pay your mortgage. Your other debts might remain, but if this creditors want to force you into bankruptcy, let them pay the majority of the legal fees.
If you can’t pay your mortgage and other debts, you should apply for bankruptcy in the normal way.
Even this article says unsecured debt is also wiped. Be pointless otherwise
How is a deal with AIB or KBC gonna wipe your MBNA credit card and car loan with Bank of Ireland?
It’s an opportunity for a very few, and would be attractive to those contemplating emigration.
But the truth remains, if you’re bust, you’re bust. For the young fee and single, a plane ticket is a cheaper option.
People have to be free to live their lives, which is a point this Government has neglected in its pursuit of bank satisfaction.
Paul
If people want to be free to live their lives, then why did they saddle themselves with debt they can’t pay back?
And nobody will become homeless. There’s a choice other people who can’t afford to own have. It’s called renting.
Colin ….same reason the banks issued bonds they couldn’t pay back. People’s situation changed with job losses etc.
Banks played a big part in the downturn.
Paul/Scarr all debts are included in the 3 month arrangement by virtue how a PIA works and the voting thresholds involved. It means that if surrender/repossession is the only/last option that everything is dealt with in one go and the pain isn’t dragged out for 3 or 5 years.
Paul, see below
It works as the main lender controls the PIA and can effectively bind the smaller creditors into a deal
Ger
Over two thirds of households in arrears still have somebody in employment. They can afford accommodation fine, just not the house they are in.
The leaked BOI data that was left on a bus shows that it’s mega mortgages that are the main bulk of arrears by value, i,e. Dublin trophy houses.
Any repo cases that have come before the courts have turned out to be more Brendan & Asta “we have 20 BTL properties” Kelly than John & Mary “stuck in a 1 bed shoebox” Murphy.
Remember Jim Stafford saying that it was “important” that insolvent doctors & solictors stay in their houses because of the “status”.
Look past the barrage of VI propaganda and read between the lines. The reasons repos have not been moved on is because it’s the great & good of Irish society that will lose out and we can’t have that.
Colin,
The opportunity cost of surrendering a mortgage (and a low interest tracker) is paying rent.
The monthly outgoings on either are pretty much identical, so why give up on your house?
Keith,
Same applies. People surrendering property rights because they are snowed under with other debt doesn’t make sense unless the person is de facto bankrupt. So I only see this as working for a very few, but it should not be a “normalised” option for debt resolution. It only provides more choice to the banks.
About fcuking time to!!!!!
Who ain’t sick of being bombarded with the stories of the UK Champagne Knightsbridge bankruptcy jaunts, NAMA dole and bailouts of every single elitist sycophantic pious lowlife villain of the bubble for the past 7 years?
They’ve lost their home ,time to move on !
@ Master Kaye
Gun to their head?
Try explaining that to some of the kids who lost their parents to financial distress induced suicides.
That is a ridiculous argument! first off my point was that they wilfully, even gleefully, signed the contract without a gun to their head …. This emotive populist bullshi! you go on with is without any logic. Sad as it is that people felt they had no option but to take their own lives, the fact remains that their financial trouble was a consequence of their own actions. I’m sure my opinion is unpopular, but it is about time that the people of this country realize that they are as much to blame for this mess as any banker or politician. Enda Kenny (a man I revile btw) said one true thing in his life “we all partied” and was roundly battered for it. People can’t bring themselves to admit that they did, but they did party with a sickening bravado, arrogance and a reckless disregard for the future.
Kaye – you’re like a conversation from 3 years ago.
3 years and you boneheads still dont get it
Boneheads! Lol. Gosh darn nincompoops. I’m getting back in my zeppelin!
So go on, give us the lowdown. Please spell it out, real slow like; y’know for us hornswagglers. :D
Go on, get what?
What about the bondholders Master Kate. They signed contracts also countersigned by our banks – who believe it or not couldn’t pay. But you think we little guy should be harassed?
Spot on Gerbreen.
In Ireland signing a contract seems to mean a winfall for the inbred elite.
Yet it seems to be a death sentence of mental torment, villification and criminalisation for the working poor.
De bond holders de bond holders de banks de banks, yawn.
Your all giving out about this but alot of people will be homeless without help !! My ex husband left the country left mortgage and credit card bills , no maintaince I’m losing my home with no.chance of paying outstanding balance while raising our 3 children , so if I can benefit from this and in turn h’s r some sort of a future I will jump at the chance
Shirley, thats heart breaking, what ever reason he came up with to do this to you and your children it’s not near good enough, I really hope something like this come’s through for you,
The sooner you lose your home the better as it would be better off sold to someone who desperately needs to buy a property and can actually afford it.
You really are a pathetic thing !
Good stuff!!!!
Instant relief for the financial abused of the bubblebust.
Bring it on.
It’s time to free the victims of the
criminal elitist inbreeds.
victims?????????????? Nobody put a gun to anyones head and made them sign a mortgage, they may be victims of their own poor decisions
.
Some may have been Master Kaye what about those were not victims of poor decisions should they also be punished?
They may be victims or fools who will avail of this but if they do not have this opportunity all of society will pay long term.
Time to face up to problems for a change instead of talking moral shi7e like Master Kaye, straight out of the 1930′s.
Do what benefits most people and Ireland rather than the pound of flesh rubbish.
@seanie got a big mortgage huh!, 1930′s??? Nothing moral about it, I don’t want to pay dumb peoples bills in any way shape or form. These people should face up to their problems, and not make them everybody elses. Irish people can never admit they are at fault, always pointing their finger. It won’t benefit Ireland, it will be recouped somewhere from someone. It’s not a pound of flesh,, it is honouring the agreement you signed while not under duress.
No I don’t owe a penny in Mortgage.
Where in the world takes the approach that you suggest Master Kaye.
Please exclude countries where people do not even have a pot to piss in to cause they are the only ones that do what you want us to do, we did that for long enough.
The hilarious thing is that you can’t even grasp how you’ll pay a lot more by not writing these debts off. None so blind as those that will not see and let anger cloud their reason.
Sorry … I won’t be paying at all … I wont be here. I’m not angry about it, bewildered at the stupidity of it and its defenders maybe. My suggested approach is that people with mortgages pay them or suffer the consequences, that is all. You have allowed what you think I said to replace what I actually said.
Reading your prolific comments on this site I’m left wondering what your motivation is. In any event you appear to be of marginal intellect, so I will now stop responding.
^^^ that’s so short-sighted it’s almost frightening. Good luck in that new country. Your foresight will be sorely missed. *~*
“well that’s like your opinion man” -Lebowski
Master Kaye due to the bank bailout you are already paying dumb peoples bills.
Any comment about the peoples inability to pay must be tempered with a decision to loan anyone a loan of 10 times their salary over 30 years. Experienced money managers allegedly who had the benefits of internal computer systems to number crunch risk. You are contributing to their pension on a daily basis so I too feel your pain
As long as the people in debt lose their home I’m bloody happy :-) :-) get out of that house!! :-)
Dave, yea that’s great, get them out and onto the rental market to claim rent allowance
Aha Daveyboy how is the Repo hunting doing?
Did you miss the boat again?
Or are you waiting for some frail oap to get kicked out on the street so you can move in?
GYM,
Joohn is still repo hunting – and he is peeved off about NAMA selling off their properties to international investors ;)
He had a meltdown today on another thread ,pathetic really ;)
Spot on.
It seems that DaveyBoy keeps putting his rubber on before he goes to the club.
No chance of shifting with that attitude DaveyBoy.
Going great gathering, another payrise, more shares vesting and six figure deposit. Going awesome. Taking my time with the house viewings but have a good deal on my rent in prime D4.
Haha poor, bankrupt thomas. You really are a sad little old man aren’t you. Not a single productive comment from you in months yet you are first to comment on anything I say because you are jealous of my life. Enjoy debt ;-) :-) ;-)
Also gathering, have you realized how much time you have wasted being on this website ranting and moaning? You really should get out and see the light, there is more to life that being on her going ‘de banks de banks’ etc.
U green thumb yourself?
You know sweet F-all about my circumstances :) Far from bankrupt am I ;) What I know about you is ,that you’ve been going on and on and on and on and on and on about people staying in their homes :) And you haven’t enough money to purchase a decent bedsit in an area where you aspire to live but will never afford to ,because ,you’re a loser !
Going out for a walk now on the beach that’s by my doorstep ..life is cheap and great ;)
Yes,Susan,he green thumbs himself with all his other pathetic accounts that he uses on here .. Sad individual really ..he’ll come on soon and deny this :)
Haha oh Thomas, what a fool. Clearly you are unemployed too, most of us can’t go for walks in the desolate, damp countryside as we are living in the cities making money and contributing to society. I assure you I can more than afford decent property, haha make sure you bring your wellies, haha loser.
You really are clueless ,Dave ;0 Most of the people that passed by me this morning ,on the wonderful golden sandy blue flag beach ,were mostly Dubs ,that were getting away from the junkies that reside in your area ;)
Nope ,not unemployed ,Dave , pay an awful lot of tax actually ;)
Sharter’s farcical banker written efforts haven’t worked.
the banks never had all that money to begin with – its called “Fractional reserve banking”
have your say