But Noonan would have lost out along with his bondies. Can’t be having that sort of thing in this day and age especially when the Irish tax payer gladly took the tab.

Noonan was not very concerned about the 1500 plus workers who lost their jobs in Quinn companies since he facilitated their destruction by IBRC and squandered billions of euros of our money in the process. He still has not explained why he misled the people of Ireland on the day Anglo seized the Quinn Group when he said that the bondholders had taken a 50% hit in the deal. They took no hit whatsoever. What else are we being conned about and crucially why did he facilitate a strategy on QUinn that will cost betwen 6 and 7 billion and thousands of jobs when Quinn offered to pay the State 2.8 billion. THE TRUTH WILL COME OUT AND NOONAN WILL HAVE NOWHERE TO HIDE BUT THEN HE WILL HAVE RIDDEN INTO THE SUNSET WITH HIS MASSIVE LUMP SUM AND PENSIONS. WHAT A GREAT COUNTRY WE LIVE IN!

Bit whiffy alright. Dodgy late night legislation changing the outcome of the Quinn court case re:Anglo.

It will all come out eventually but sure by the time it does, nooners will be in a tribunal in 20 odd years!

What are you on about Ryan?? TBH a suggestion that Michael Noonan in some way made money or benefitted in some way from this is disgraceful and the comment should be withdrawn or removed… This is the very reason why social media sites are a joke..

So what’s your explanation Declan? He’s just incompetent, not actually evil – is that it?

Ahh get out of it!!! He is neither incompentent or evil!!!! Just becasue the journal.ie brigade don’t like him does not make him wrong… No explanation needed..

Declan you muppet
you have been told time and time again if you dont like you know where to go
stop acting like a spoilt child and cop on

Totally agree Ryan. This pushing through late at night of this legislation is very whiffy. The “leaking” of the fact that IBRC was going to be put into liquidation was very fortunate for the government, and I noted that Pat Rabbitte wasn’t very interested in chasing up who leaked the information on Primetime the other night, he just brushed it off. Justine McCarthy reported that government sources said that the emergency legislation was always going to be rushed through overnight outside of business/court hours. The legislation was far too broad, as Stephen Donnelly pointed out on the night, and he asked for the bill to be redrafted with legislation which would protect state assets , and all add ons could be debated at a later stage. Noonan was given too much power with this bill, and he also shafted the Quinn family and hundreds of others who had cases pending against IBRC by putting a stay on all proceedings. That part of the bill has to be totally unconstitutional, and I hope it is fought in the courts – even if people have to take the government to the European courts.
What is even more laughable about Noonan and co is that they are drawing up legislation, as reported in the Irish Examiner yesterday, which will make it unlikely any banking probe will be able to scrutinise actions of former ministers or taoisigh on their handing of the banking crisis.
Noonan put a further 800 people out of jobs through this bill – a lot of them on ordinary wages. Noonan converted weak promissory notes (which he later admitted were illegal on Pat Kenny) to a cast iron debt to the ECB. Noonan used bully boy tactics in pushing this legislation through at night with all the extras tagged on – it was one way of trying to stop the Quinn case getting to court.
@ Declan, I don’t know if Noonan made any money through this legislation, but has it not been reported that he is a junior bondholder??

*blows a cheeky kiss at cara*

Excellent contribution. It stinks to high heaven of rotten corruption and you don’t need to be a genius to see why. I hope too, that it all unravels out for what it is, a dodgy deal to save vested interests. Anyone with a bit of common sense can see through the lies and deceit. Those who don’t are hiding nothing but their contribution to a stinking, cheating bondholder AKA Stubbs/Bilderberg Nooners

;)

Ah shucks ;-)

Frank…..& the word muppet!!!
Hugh, please tell me if Frank is in breach of some kind of rule that j.ie have… He continues to insult and abuse and I assume the word ‘muppet’ is not meant in a positive way.
I have asked on countless occasions for Frank to simply move on and not engage with me what so ever but it is obvious that they is some for of kick or buzz taken from it..
I am openly and offically now requesting that Frank Cluskey be removed from the forum.
Declan

ahh Declan your some man
you abuse me and others i might add and get the big cousin after me
you then threaten men and when that doesn’t work you go crying to the journal
your like a spoilt brat in a shopping mall who throws his toys out of the pram when he doesn’t get what he wants
pathetic pathetic little man
i am really starting to think muppet is too good a word!

Frank I abuse nobody!!! I have no cousin on here!!! I have never threatened you… I did point out that like many on here you are very forward and gobby but my gut tells me if that person was in front of you that you might take a completely differnt tone… Thats an observation, not a threat..
Its obvious you don’t like me and to be honest I am glad because you are type of person i would cross the street to avoid…
For the record btw… I am not a little man… :-)

hahaha
Oh but you are Declan, Oh but you are :-)
P.S. Tell cousin Jerry I said Hi!

Frank,
Are you actually related to the late Frank Cluskey??
He actually was a man of some integrity, so I would be suprised if you were..! He certainly would not behave like you…of that i am certain..

I meant physically Frank… I am actually pretty big… :-)

declan why do you fell the need to keep telling me you are big
i believe you
whats your point
does it add creedence to your arguement or something

Meerly refers to you calling me a small man or something like that…btw..You never said if you are actually a relation of the late Frank Cluskey? If not I do feel it in inappropriate and insulting to his memory as an excellent servant to Ireland for you to use his name and picture!! In fact its probally ilegal in some way…

see thats exactly why you are a muppet,
of course im related you fool and I have no doubt if he were around today he would call you a MUPPET aswell!!

I bet it was leaked by the goverment themselves.

with derek the irish goverment. there is still something not quite right about this the more i read the less i know. if that makes any sense.

Totally agree with you. A very old man , who thinks he is entitled to his position . If you collapsed in front of him from lack of food he would walk on you , and tell you it’s your own fault.

Words when words are useful. Action when action is necessary?

A failed teacher??? Once again what are you on about?? Journal.ie !!!! Please stop this kind of comment… Its pub talk…

Sean

While I agree with, however using averages proves nothing.

Imagine a company with 10 people, top person paid €250k, one more paid €125k & remaining 8 people paid €25k each.

The average pay in that company is €57.5k. Or put it another way 80% of the people are paid less than half of the average. The top person is paid 10 times the salary of 80% of the people.

Even if the 8 are paid €50k, the average only rises to €77.5k, so you still have 80% of the people paid 1/3 less than the average.

The problem with a lot of Corporate & Government / Civil / Public service pay in Ireland is that the salaries of the people at the top of the pay scale are so far out of proportion with the vast majority that the AVERAGE is being skewed out of all proportion.

Carcu, true,
And why shouldn’t they take a bigger pay cut as bench marking gave them bigger pay rises( those payed by government)
Bench marking seems to have been based on private secret excesses, particularly those at he top

Sean they are not getting massive redundancy payments or at least the staff that remain are not, they had a deal to get 4 weeks per year if they stayed to wind up the company, however when the liquidator arrived they were told they would recieve statutory redundancy and they would have to wait upto 12 months. They also have no idea if they have any sick pay/maternity scheme and other terms and conditions on these new 1 month rolling contracts. This was at least from before the union meeting yesterday.

As regards the massive salaries I belive the liquidator got rid of nearly all senior managment the other day, the people left on these rolling 1 month contracts are just the normal everyday staff, not the staff that in your words “drove the property bubble to insane levels”.

Carcu – Fair enough re the avergages, but when theres 800 people involved and very few (maybe 20 max) on greater than 175k, it takes a large number of “high” salaries to up the average to 100k.

Derek – although I agree its stressful times for these people, they have had 5 years extra on the state payroll at realtively high levels of salary, which is more that can be said for people at all of the private firms that were allowed to go bust in the last few years, they can’t have not seen it coming! Theres a 2 tier social welfare system in the country, those on inflated salaries maintained by a government unwilling to act, and those on the dole

Shay
I did not make any comment about taking or not taking pay cuts. I simply pointed out the taking averages as the basis of wage comparison does not produce a reliable method for determining how much the vast majority could be paid.

Sean
In my example if 1 is paid €250k, the next gets €225k & 1 gets €175k and the remaining 7 are paid €50k the average pay is €100k. So again 70% of the workers are paid half of the average, while 20% earn over twice the average! This again proving my point that a massive pay difference between the top and normal staff can and does skew the average!

Sean Belive it or not some of the poeple employed at IBRC were infact hired in the last 4 years, unfortunatly because the goverment did not wind it up in 2008 like any company it needed staff to keep it running, when jobs are so scare even working for IBRC is a job. They were also garrenteed that if they would stay on to wind down the company for the goverment that they would recieve 4 weeks per year. Even IBRC while failed still needed everyday staff to wind it down, there reward for staying on at the bank to wind it down for the goverment was for Noonan to screw them at the last minute.

I have no doubt most of the managment will probably have no problem getting rehired but the low paid staff will, I’ll bet with all Noonans confident feelings ect I would say less than 100 of those staff will get transferred to Nama.

@Sean Reilly

That is complete nonsense, The staff are all going to recieve statutory redundancy. Nothing more. They have been told this already. And only the the top level staff are earning inflated salarys, as has been pointed out they were all cleared out in the last few weeks too. The people employed in IBRC didnt cause the mess we are in, that lot cleared out as fast as they could. If you are happy to have the taxpayer foot the bill for social welfare for 800+ people directly employed and the thousands lost through the Quinn group then fine, but dont come giving out when unemployment levels start rising again and the goverment bill for social security continues to rise. You sound like a fascist to be honest.

I dont agree with the IBRC liquidation as a workable plan for us to get out of this mess and I dont think it was discussed at all in government buildings which is ridiculus.

Oh and to people who said we should have let the banks go into liquidation in 2008- You do know that bond holders were a higher priority to pay than the depositers in the banks? This was in the contract law. So in other words everyone with savings in the banks would have lost all of their money while the bond holders got paid! Would you really prefer that?

By the way, I do not work in a bank and never have done. I know people who used to though. I have a good understanding of basic economics too, it tends to help.

@Orion

Fair enough if it’s only statutotory being paid & if the majority were not ther pre 2008, though I don’t believe the latter to be the case

However your grasp of “basic economics” as you put it baffles me. The goverment pays the salaries for 800 people, or the governement pays the lesser social welfare amount for 800 people. unemployment “rises”, the government loses the income tax on money it provides anyway but gains the full difference. Rising unemployment for public job losses, though admittedly having dire social consequences is not necesarily bad from a strictly economic point of view….but I’m a “fascist” for being unhappy about paying for the continued luxuries of the privileged few

@Sean Reilly

I would be happy to see the public sector slaughtered to be honest, but the government will also see a small drop in vat reciepts from those 800 staff in IBRC as they will have less disposable income.

you said in your original comment that they would walk into cushy jobs- yet now you are examining the benefits of them losing their jobs…bit of a turn around?

In terms of economics, yes we need to seriously cut the size and wages of the public service but if the government nationalised all private companys in the state and liquidated them a few years later where would we be?

If they are skilled people they’ll hopefully find better jobs in one of the productive sectors of the economy. That would be a win-win situation.

The Government is one of the worst abusers of employment law in Ireland. I was once told by a member of the legal profession that many of the more ridiculous rules and regulations that the private sector has to be observe were actually brought in to curtail abuses by the Government (for an example, just look at how they try to create two tiered workforces in every area – e.g. teachers who don’t get contracts for years and year vs the privileges they enjoy once they become permanent)

I’ve observed how some of my friends and relations in the PS are treated, and I can tell you there’s few private sector companies where the staff would tolerate that type of working environment. I’m not making excuses for the PS, just saying – how’d you like to be an employee of the Irish Government? (shudder)

Ah give over!! If anything the media in Ireland are grossly anti Goverment… Its obvious that your version of news is one that validates your own opinion whether its factual or not….
As for conspiracy theorist….I certainly would brand you one of those…

Not true. The Irish Times is one example of a paper where the editorial is definitely pro-government. This very site has a story talking the “windfall” from the promissory notes “deal”.

Today’s conspiracy theories are next years truths.

You must not live in Ireland if you think the media are anti-government, on the contrary in fact. RTE are state funded to push the state agenda…..sure why else would Pat, Miriam and Tubbers be on that type of salary? Seriously? Explain why, even though its supposed to be public broadcaster it continues to take in revenue from advertising. Stinky winky yet again. But I value your different opinion. Thanks

That’s is a ridiculous comment ! They are taxed the same so have felt the same increases as I have! The people in charge should be held accountable but most were hard working decent people who don’t deserved to be tarred with the same brush

Nah, fine them all. Along with all the past and present members of FFecked.