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Dublin: 14 °C Tuesday 21 May, 2013

IBEC’s wish list: Stop public sector pay increments, increase working hours

The calls for change come ahead of a Public Accounts Committee hearing on the Public Service Reform

IBEC Director Brendan McGinty
IBEC Director Brendan McGinty
Image: Sasko Lazarov/Photocall Ireland

IRISH BUSINESS REPRESENTATIVE group IBEC has called for the immediate suspension of public sector pay increments, stating it is “not credible” to sanction the payments when a €3.5 billion adjustment is needed in the upcoming Budget.

IBEC said it is also making the calls to stop the €200 million annual increments “given the Government’s failure to achieve any significant savings to the allowances bill.”

Speaking ahead of the group’s HR Leadership Summit in Dublin today, director Brendan McGinty claimed “the country simply cannot afford public sector pay rises”, adding that “we’re spending €1 billion more that we’re taking in each month”.

The director said the measure can be “legitimately pursued” under clause 1.28 of the Croke Park deal, which states that “implementation of this agreement is subject to no currently unforeseen budgetary deterioration.”

Savings will “need to be found elsewhere”, McGinty added, before putting forward suggestions for increased working hours, a reform of the allowances system and an adjustment of pension entitlements.

“Another €3.5 billion adjustment in Budget 2013 is required and the bulk of this should come from reducing expenditure, not raising taxes. This is less damaging to jobs and recovery.”

IBEC says recent recommendations by the Labour Court setting a minimum 34-hour week for local authority staff “simply did not go far enough”. In relation to the allowances system, the group wants to see management proposals discussed with public service unions and, if disputed, put to independent arbitration by the end of the year.

It also believes that the Government will have to consider adjusting pension entitlements for serving public sector workers – and not just new recruits – as the current pensions liability is “simply unaffordable”.

Meanwhile, the Committee of Public Accounts is to examine the Public Service Reform Plan when it meets with Minister Brendan Howlin later this morning.

The Oireachtas committee will also receive a briefing on the work of the Implementation Body of the Croke Park Agreement.

Chairman John McGuinness said the hearing offers an opportunity to examine the progress report in detail and consider how the public sector is changing “in the way it is organised, in the way people are managed and in the way money is spent.”

The key issues to be discussed in the meeting are what savings are already being achieved, what savings are envisaged and what targets are in place. The PAC will also ask how are front-line services being affected as a result of certain savings.

Hayes: Public sector salaries over €100k have to be looked at

Croke Park Agreement: Where do the political parties stand?

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Comments (43 Comments)

  • Is it just me or your man look’s like boyce out of only fools and horses?

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  • Cut increases to those above 70k. The massive pensions to retired college heads, politicians should be cut.

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  • 80% of people working in the public sector are low paid earners. Stop big pension to all TD and ministers until 65. Stop severance pay to TD who have only been in the job a wet week. Stop large payments to Bertie, Brian. Cowan and other past ministers. 4.5 million paid to these guys last week in pensions. If we can’t afford to pay home helps the surely to god these payments needs to be cut also. Stop cleaning expenses 3,000 a year to TDs. Make TDs produce receipts for expenses. Abolish the senead we can’t afford it any more.

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  • Nobody would objects to cuts for those on over €70,000 pa. It is frustrating to see all public servants treated as one unit. How much does Brendan McGinty earn? How much of a wage reduction did he suffer since 2007? How much of this reduction, if any, was voluntary in the best interest of this country?

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  • Derek 11/10/12 #

    As mentioned above, a 95%tax on ex TD and ministerial pensions would be nice to hear of.

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  • I don’t understand that because some of us decided to give of ourselves and work in the public service that we now are the pariahs of society. You all seem to forget that working in the public service is about working for the greater good of the community. This includes cleaning up puke wiping backsides cleaning up shit working weekends nights long days not being paid overtime not getting back time in lieu getting assaulted saving lives being kind caring patient saving lives and wondering why we are so despised

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  • The irony about IBEC is that they represent many commercial semi-state bodies such as the ESB, Bord Gáis etc, they are only mouthing off this morning because they’re excluded from the negotiations in public sector reform.
    IBECs agenda remains unchanged from the Celtic tiger days; protect the vested interests of the rich. These are the same people in IBEC who sipped champagne etc with Quinn, Anglo, treasury holdings

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  • IBEC should focus more on keeping people employed, growing their members businesses and making sure the cost of living in Ireland doesn’t get any worse. Instead they’re jumping on the rotting carcas of our society tring to get more money for their members out of all of us, Poor and Rich.

    First and foremost the worst expenditure in the state is the bank Bailouts and garuntees. Our tax policies may be unbalanced, our inequality disasterous and our public services severely inefficeint but the heaviest cost on all of us are Debts that are not ours.

    The IMF has already admitted Austerity is slaughtering our economy and not making it any easier to pay back debt that was never ours to begin with. Time to use more than one economic model to pull ourselves out of this mess. Stimulus, Public works, Restructuring/reform, tax-breaks, tax-increases, direct investment, infrastructure investment, a good laugh now and then; ANYTHING that works.

    Austertity isn’t working. They’re ripping up our rights and hard earned money to service foreign greed and a select few. We did not all party.

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  • Lol but Boyce talks more sense,, my be we should call enda trigger

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    • What do you mean?? It’s ludicrous that the high earners in the public sector are getting pay increments whilst they are thinking of cutting child benefit…. I know we are sick of reading and listening to how bad this shower of TD’s are as well but if they do not enforce this clause in the CPA well we might as well just pack up and go….. Paying anyone increases in pay under any guise from the public purse at this juncture is almost monty python ish.

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    • I agree with you Dave, i think this whole thing needs clarification. I was talking to some nurses and porters last week, they were quite clear that since this whole mess began they have had no wage increments, no pay rises and basically have to do everything that people are already calling for them to do.
      One nurse I met again, literally running, on Tuesday with samples told me they had 68 people in the A&E Department, over 50 of them were seriously ill. She was quite upset about this saying that they were getting by on sheer luck but that couldn’t possibly last. She said they had the public complaining lef, right and center, and rightly so, she didn’t blame them, but when the same people wanted her blood the next week, cutting her wages, reducing the staff and wanting them working more hours for less there had to be a result to it. And this was it. She was considering quitting and emigratting to Australia, but she won’t, she always says that, but this is the problem we can’t have it both ways. If we reduce staff and services there is a result, and we, the public and patients end up paying it.

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    • I am shocked by the amount of red thumbs… How can anyone disagree with the point I made… SENIOR civil servants getting pay increases is ludicrous at this juncture whilst cuts to welfare , healthcare are ongoing weekly.

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    • blah! 11/10/12 #

      Dave, senior and middle ranking civil servants generally don’t get pay increases through increments. The vast majority are already top of their pay scales.

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    • That nurse managed to tell you a lot while she was literally running with samples Rusty.

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    • Blah, true but Dave’s point is still correct and we have to start somewhere to get the elite see sense. From little acorns ….

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    • Dave
      Public sector workers know the rate senior public sector workers are paid. The problem is that the morons start banging the war drum and its “All public sector workers” that get tarred with the one brush. It’s pretty depressing. Some (a loud few) just want to shout in the same direction as others without having any informed opinion of their own. It’s lose lose for the struggling public sector worker on the sh1t end of the scale, and there are more than enough of them sick and tired of being told they are over paid.

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    • Sorry Rusty Balls but porters are the epitome of underworked overpaid public servants. They are nothing short of a disgrace. Their job is completely unskilled and yet they are often paid more per hour than doctors. They have nothing to complain about. They are heavily unionised and have the hospitals by their balls.

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    • this complete spin that these are paid brilliant wages, Senior Civil Servants, politicians and all these bankers are the ones that are getting the high wages for what? IBRC CEO got a half a million plus a bonus for sitting on the board of Directors!!!! target these not the front line staff in Hospitals, Councils & other areas. We all need to work together as opposed to Public v Private. Employed v Unemployed that ia what is allowing the Politicians do what they like because we are too busy watching each other

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    • Belly Up 11/10/12 #

      I’m not saying they are paid massively high wages. I’m saying they are paid wages massively out of proportion with the service they provide. They are lazy, work-to-rule, unionised workers who are no more essential to the frontline than a hospital receptionist. They are replaceable but for the fact that they have a strong union.

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  • This article makes the presumption that there are people getting paid increases in the PS. Therein starts the myth.

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  • Yes cut the public service pay bill that will get us out of the financial icu were in …
    And increase working hours like that will increase productivity after you take workers minimal disposable income …
    You pretend to pay them they’ll pretend to work …

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  • The government should create a few more jobs in Longford clearing the backlog in the dept for invalidity pension – it takes at least 6 months to process and maybe longer. If it were the passport office it would be sorted out within weeks, but of course our TDs don’t care about the sick and vulnerable. This government is much more devious the the previous – they promised reform and did the direct opposite.

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  • Cathy don’t worry about what people think ,it’s all about the standard of care we provide to all thier families. Once they experience the skeleton staffing in all hospitals they will realise what we provide to our community and the professional standard we maintain under those conditions…Summoning dark days… “try harder” won’t entertain BS so FU.. is that better!

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  • IBEC should mind it’s own bussiness.. Croke Park is here til 2014 ! Increments is core pay! Allownances have some areas of reform but who else in this country has paid 14,000/percapita on a meager wage! Yes that’s 14000o/year decrease from the start! Tax the top and continue to improve the massive gains already made in the public health sector! through CPA. Fought for many years for my pay and crediability! My contract states that increments are here to stay so FY IBEC!

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    • Tax the top? Always tax someone else but me….. You’re not saying F@ck you to IBEC, you’re saying F@ck you to the Irish tax payer

      Tax the rich? Tax breaks unfair on the poor? Perception and perspective is everything.

      Suppose that once a month, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all of them comes to €100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes and claim state benefits, it would go something like this;

      The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing. The fifth would pay €1. The sixth would pay €3. The seventh would pay €7. The eighth would pay €12. The ninth would pay €18. And the tenth man (the richest) would pay €59.

      So, that’s what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every month and seemed quite happy with the arrangement until, one day, the owner caused them a little problem. “Since you are all such good customers,” he said, “I’m going to reduce the cost of your weekly beer by €20.” Drinks for the ten men would now cost just €80.

      The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free but what about the other six men; the paying customers? How could they divide the €20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share?

      They realised that €20 divided by six is €3.33 but if they subtracted that from everybody’s share then not only would the first four men still be drinking for free but the fifth and sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.

      So the bar owner suggested a different system. The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing. The sixth man paid €2 instead of €3 . The seventh paid €5 instead of €7. The eighth paid €9 instead of €12. The ninth paid €14 instead of €18. And the tenth man now paid €49 instead of €59. Each of the last six was better off than before with the first four continuing to drink for free.

      But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings. “I only got €1 out of the €20 saving,” declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, “but he got €10!”

      “Yes, that’s right,” exclaimed the fifth man. “I only saved a €1 too. It’s unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me!”

      “That’s true!” shouted the seventh man. “Why should he get €10 back, when I only got €2? The rich get all the breaks!”

      “Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison, “we didn’t get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!”

      So, the nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up. Funnily enough, the next month the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had their beers without him.

      But when it came to pay for their drinks, they discovered something important – they didn’t have enough money between all of them to pay for even half the bill.

      That’s how our tax system works. The people who already pay the highest taxes do tend to get the most benefit from tax reliefs and reductions. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy and they just might not show up anymore.

      For those who understand, no explanation is needed. For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.

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    • 1) ‘Increments are core pay’ not ‘increments is core pay’

      2) FY IBEC? I assume you mean FU?

      Must try harder!

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    • @ciaran, your long fairy tale is flawed but then you probably know that but go ahead and don’t let the truth get in the way of a good story

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  • IBEC are a sort of circle jerk for the Merc/Beemer crowd.

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  • Every person in the country it seems, can see the damage that’s been done by this “protect the public sector at all costs” policy that the bunch of cowards called Fine Gael/Labour are pursuing. IBEC will always have a different agenda to everyone else, but this time they are actually talking some sense.

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  • No shit sherlock (Benway)..No flies on my shite! We accepted it because the counrty is in trouble and it was our ethical duty to take a cut! 14000/per capita per year..who else has payed this on a meager salary! CPA has saved billions and is not fundamentally falwed. Core pay includes allowances and increments..No private sector worker would work Saturdays (12hr day) for 15 Euro’s.. take an allowance or two but I want my Saturday Pay back! Mind ya I do blame that on the INMO!

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  • The reason you are so despised is because the Fg/Labour government promised change for all citizens and completely failed to change anything promised before the election. The cpa is where the labour party and the unions were bought off by the FF/banker/developer/nama group that ruined this country. So the re-iterate the reason you are so despised is because by the cpa you have joined the gang made up of the previous government which ruined the country( rightly despised), the current government (also rightly despised) and their golden circle of cronies( rightly despised). If you lie down with dogs you will get fleas.

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  • MrKnow 11/10/12 #

    i love the way people come here and try defend the well off. Stop! there miserable bast@#ds, always were, always will. It doesn’t take a genius to figure them out.

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