If you don´t want to give money to lenders then don´t borrow. Only spend what you take in in taxes.

If only it was easy to do as it sounds though.

ur on a roll today edward. Nice view from up there? ;)

Government bonds have always been guaranteed by the tax payer, it’s in the name.

Savings Bonds and Savings Certs are govt guaranteed. Now if only there were some outlet in every town and village in Ireland where ordinary people could purchase such govt backed bonds????LOL

He bought when others were selling believing our bonds to be a bad investment. He took a chance and if Ireland does well he will do well. We didn’t have to borrow this money we could have gone cold turkey and suffered the consequences.

Sure if u know some joe soap are running a country,wouldnt u do da same….i surely will..

We would all buy them if we got a guaranteed return from the Irish government just as he did.

Hello Spruiker,

What’s stopping you from getting government guaranteed bonds?

They are available in the post office. :)

Correction

I meant to say a corrupt backroom underhanded guaranteed return from the Irish government.

Sorry for any misunderstanding.

Tom
I would but the guaranteed return isn’t as good as the ones this guy got and the security wouldn’t be as good either.

Actually, the guarantee is exactly equal for both.

I wonder why the returns aren’t.

No, but the net effect on the Irish economy is the same.

In fairness to you I thought that link was a bit crazy so I googled it again today and although I am not entirely convinced I would like to read more about it and I see ur point. Thanks.

Niamh, It’s taken me a long time to reach my conclusions. So, please take your time to study this complex and difficult subject. I know it sounds like some Orwellian nightmare come true but really, all that proves is that Orwell knew what he was talking about. How he knew is beyond me. Thanks for looking into it, and if you persevere and come to similar conclusions as myself, please encourage others to follow suit.
All the best.

lol Gianni and funnily enough you have the perfect name to be commenting on such matters ;)

they did Keith and there was only a tiny take up of them …….

not much money for bonds with all this austerity.

Because you want to see our hospitals and schools close?

We’ve got that on the go already.

I’m sure he’s all sweaty about a few million in unvouched expenses and a handful of advisor. Not that I agree with those things.

Jesus Tom, i agree with all of your posts on this thread , there is some incredible naivety when it comes to who moderns countries are financed . Like you say ,this guy is actually an investor rather than shorter, but I guess the lefties have been waiting a long time to put a face to the enemy

Ah well, some folks didn’t even read the article. What can one do? :)

I knew we’d evetually agree.

I entirely agree with you Tom. I have had it out with the usual suspects in here on their daily trolls. I’ve tried to explain that their ill-informed opinion is just that, ill-informed opinion. Yet they state it with the conviction of people who have some idea what they’re talking about when they clearly don’t.

Yep

Thanks Gary. One particularly nasty regular has taken to calling me a ***ck because I pointed out that she is a bit silly.

Oh that nasty regularly sits here day in day out holding court, telling certain people what they want to hear. How many times have I been called a sheep and many other names. You must not challenge them for any proof as they simply don’t have it. And no matter how many times you show them are wrong they will still be here the next day saying the same things. It’s almost scary.

Life is too short to worry about nasty stupid people.

You guys honestly thing this guy doesn’t short? He took the long bet here because it suits him. You guys clearly aren’t a up to speed as you think you are either.

Is this the equivalent of talking behind her back? Grow up the lot of ye. Tom you are not adverse to name calling so if you can’t take it…. Reada called you a p##ck in response to ur remark. You consistently belittle people so in fairness you’ve had it coming a while. Stop bitching. And don’t take it out on me either, I’m off to work now.

Ah Niamh. Thanks. You’re so cute. I saw the hate-in last night. ;) In fairness I said I’d like to call him one but I’m too much of a classy lady to do that. I’m busy today to so enjoy the morning and afternoon, I might be back on tonight tho. Threats! Threats! LOL

So what did I miss by having a life and stuff to do for the first few hours this morning?

Ah…getting up to speed now. The “suspects” are continuing with their name calling. (I kinda feel they were probably the school bullies when they were younger.)

I’ll check back again in a few hours. Have fun!

Hi Réada .
How are you this evening ? I have been very busy all day today .
Good to see you are back on :)

Borrowed your link. Hope you don’t mind. It’s all kicking off below. Jaysus…. LOL

no probs, borrowed it meself! :-D

I borrowed it too :)

It wasn’t an order, Réada, more a piece of advice.

Karl. Eventually everything fails. It’s got too big and it’s going to blow. What happened to the Roman empire? And the British empire. This has been a con, but all cons are found out eventually.
We are going through the 2nd stage of truth….

What empire is there to fall?

From the NYTimes article-> “All of the Templeton Global Bond Fund’s Irish government bonds mature after 2013, according to the November holdings filing.”

So probably not cheerleading now.

They mature after 2013. That’s exactly what I thought. He is cheerleading them. These are not long term bonds as no one would touch long term bonds for Ireland as they know we have to default at some stage.
He took a gamble and won. Fair play to him, but anyone on the inside of the Irish gov would have this info. Easy if you’re an insider.

What kind of investor would talk down their investments? That would be stupid.

Hmmm….multi-millionaire who makes money froom accurately predicting markets contrary to popular opinion versus keyboard warriors who phone the Joe Duffy Show….I think the millionaire will probably be more accurate.

The “man” is a parasite. He feeds off the misery of others for the betterment of himself.
What’s almost as bad is the fact that there are many people in this country, and on this site who think the chap is somehow admirable!
I mean, how deeply has the rot seeped into a person’s soul by the time praising a jackal like this guy can seem like the right thing to do??
How long will it take them to see that the corporatist/capitalist (call it what you want) has absolutely ZERO interest in them or humanity in general?
Their only interest lies in themselves and their own advancement, and to hell with the rest of us!

At this stage tom, anything is possible. I wish I shared his optimism (or his money).

Niamh,

I am naturally more cautious but always feel optimistic flying the green flag. I do think default has been averted for now, even if it is in our interest to take more bailouts. We might not have cause to dance in the streets, but this is a very positive sign.

Niamh
No. I really do believe he is a vulture fund . I have read over the article again and listened to the vid , keeping an open mind to what you have said and I can not see him as anything other than a vulture .
Stephen
We seem to be out shouted here but I still agree with you and Réada .

Stephen,

You’ve just moved me from being a centre right capitalist…to being an even more right of centre capitalist. :)

tom, please enjoy your little walk to the right.
i honestly hope you enjoy it, truly i do.
however, if one terrible day you come to the end of that particular plank and look behind you i believe that the faces you will see behind you will be the puffed up arrogant faces of your fellow right-wing capitalists.
they will sell you out in a heartbeat, and move on to their next victim like the vampires that they are.
in that eventuality, it is the state and its provisions that you’ll have to fall back on.
i know your right wing philosophy probably doesn’t approve of such loony left handout concepts as welfare etc. if that is the case i hope you stay true to your convictions and take the right-wing option and throw yourself directly into the arms of the V de P rather than going on the scratch.
in the meantime you should put your children into private school, give back your children’s allowance books, refund the state all the mortgage interest relief you’ve no doubt been availing yourself of over the years etc etc.
beir bua a chara

Stephen, it’s a debate on a different thread but I have often said that I should lose my children’s allowance and that the money would be put to better use helping those with physical and mental disabilities, drug & alcohol dependency and giving opportunities to the poor. As soon as children’ s allowance is means tested I will nreayhe a sigh of relief.

Does anyone believes for one second that this guy all on his own own decides before breakfast one morning to shovel 1.9bn euros into Irish debt? Come on folks, is that how these things work?
I listened to that video and have heard the same old crap a thousand times – Mario Draghi, Barroso, Noonan, (Kenny if he had the wit) have been spouting the same old lines. If the recent past tells us anything it shows us that cooperate investors don’t take a hit on losses on government and bank bonds – the private investor and the citizen of the state does. This guy strikes me as nothing more than a poster boy for a group of anonymous corporate investors.

ahh, Tom.
you’ll keep collecting your kiddy’s allowance, keep taking yer M.I.R. keep puttin yer kids into state school.
BUT, you call yourself a “right-wing capitalist”.
methinks there’s a little hypocrisy goin on here, don’t you?

I seem to have more options than you David.

So I think I’ll pass.

Thank you.

I’ll pass too thanks. I’m siding with Cowan even tho he’s giving me the fingers. Wtf

Spot on Spruiker,

I’d imagine when Greece defaults all bets are off!

Seriously…..????

@ Niamh. Yes! Please go to the website above. There is a battle going on between human beings and the sub species, or intraspecies predators known as psychopaths. This is not just my opinion but the opinion of the leading scientists in the field of psychopathology.

Thanks. I know bloody well I’m right. He’s just keeping the charade going. He’s a speculator. He’s hoping to make a fortune. Some fall for the BS. I don’t like the smell. The Markets as they have developed are a total charade and they all have different parts to play. But this guy is no knight in shining armour.

Réada he’s in the money making business he’s not saving the world. However there’s a big difference between making a fair investment and some of speculation we’ve seen. Unfortunately many people forget that, for example, the higher earners in this country pay the vast majority of the income tax so those on lower incomes pay feck all. Hating people just because they make money is idiocy. Though to be fair you have plenty of bile for plenty of things.

I agree reada, he definitely has his own interests at heart (if he even has one) but unfortunately if we are to get back on our feet as a country we need to look like a positive investment, in this means professional eyes we are. He is fairly high up in the financial sector so would have some nfluence.

As for the above link….I read it and still……seriously……????

I didn’t read the above link but nothing surprises me anymore tbh. The Markets, as they are, are the con of the last century. They are vile. I knew and stated when I made my first comment that few would agree with me. I’ve been watching this for the past 7 years and it stinks.

Gary don’t give me that about the higher earners…that is crap. The higher earners in this country are advised and use every loophole to legally avoid paying their fair share. They may pay more income tax on paper but if you add it all up they pay substantially less than the middle earners, who pay the bulk of tax in this country.

Gary
” He’s not doing anything unethical or immoral”
In fact he is doing nothing illegal,but i reserve the right to say he is being immoral and unethical. Having
said that , he is in the business of making money so he probably believes he is doing nothing wrong . I still stand by what I said earlier

That’s a bit naive! Here is a man who has that much confidence in our country he bet his company and an awful lot of money on it. He didn’t make the system he is just playing it.
Its the teachers and lawyers running the country with little REAL life experience or knowledge of market economics that resulted in us being where we are.

The thing is Reada he is only doing his job and that money will probably go into peoples pension funds. He is merely capitalizing on the stupidity of the previous and present governments and their guarantees. I remember M Noonan in opposition going on about how people were buying Irish bonds at discounts of up to 60% in the speculation that they would be paid in full and he was rounding on the government about it. what’s the first thing he does in Government? Pays the speculators! This guy isn’t bringing the country to it’s knees that’s the job of the Government and they seem to be quite good at it as well.

nothing against teachers and lawyers. but they are teachers and lawyers not economists and engineers which is what we need.

Eh, Réada, the bonds he’s bought are Irish government issued debt. This debt was issued before and during the crisis and relates to general government spending as much as anything else (indeed, promissory notes for example are owed to the Irish central bank, no outsider.)

If you think it’s immoral for others to profit from Irish government debt, then I presume that you hold that the Irish government should balance the budget overnight by slashing welfare, jobs and services and running only balanced budgets from now on?

If you don’t want to be beholden to outsiders, don’t borrow from them by not running deficits. We did this in all weather.

The man is a vulture. A vulture does what vultures do. I suppose no point in debating the morality of vultures. They can’t help it. If I decide to buy a pet bird, I won’t choose a vulture. I don’t like them. I knew ye’d be on me like a ton of bricks but I don’t care. I would hate to be him. 

Réada
You are exactly right .You are not the naieve one her . He is a vulture ,
investing hedgefunds in our debt waiting for us to default or pass away.
I have been reading up on these and these guys exist and just wait …hence the name vulture

Google …Donegal International

I don’t think this is a vulture fund, vulture funds as eileen said bet on default, his company although I don’t agree, seems to promote ireland as a great place to do business. He is saying that multi nationals will continue to invest in this country because our work force its educated, we have low corporation tax and light regulations. It seems to me that he its promoting ireland as a safe investment, now I know he has vested interests but so do we so maybe we need more of him. The vulture funds are something completely different and there should global legislation against them.

Reada & Eileen,

I know you guys like a good scarp but this is astonishingly dumb. He actually gains by Ireland doing well.
Did either of you actually read the article?

Those who went “short” on Irish bonds might, if labelling is your thing, be described as vultures. This guy is actually going long and it is in his interest that Ireland extricates itself from the mire.

This is basic 1+1=2 mathmatics.

He is the guy paying for the teachers and nurses.
Of course if you don’t want his money the country could try living within its means.

Reada and Eileen if you have a private pension what sort of person do you think manages it? A nice, quiet mammy’s boy who doesn’t like to up set people or some one who’s job is to put as much money into your retirement fund as possible? What would you like at the age of retirement a well funded cash pile to give you a comfortable retirement or a fraction of that (but ethically funded so you don’t upset anyone) that leaves you on the breadline?

Ye are missing the point here. He is responding to the stupidity of our Government and is only doing what he is paid to do. If he thought for one moment that the Government managed to find a set of balls between them and burn the unsecured bondholders he would pack up his tent and leg it. He knows that this will not be the case so that is why he is making a fortune out of us.

He may be a vulture as you say but hey! If the Government are going to throw a carcass on the table, garnish it and serve it up with gravy and all the trimmings then what is a vulture to do?

http://youtu.be/4728zcsMrmo

Brian Ward
thanks for that . Yes it is his job to do what he is doing . I am more annoyed at the government
we have than anything this guy is doing . He is watching and waiting for his opportunity .
It is immoral as Réada says but it is business and he is only here because we are on our knees
thanks to Bertie ,Brian, Enda et al. I wish the government we have would just start doing right by us and stand up for us. Then we would not have guys like this and his company waiting for us to crash and burn.

He is not vulture. Vultures eat corpses. This guy is buying our bonds in the belief that we will not die. If we default, he will lose his money (unless he paid gazillions for insurance, which I doubt is an economic buy, even now).

The more people there are like him, the sooner we regain our economic sovereignty. When people buy our bonds, the rate at which the market will lend to us comes down. If no-one buys our bonds, it’s another bailout and more enforced austerity.

Reada / Eileen – not everyone who buys and sells bonds is Satan incarnate. We will always need people to buy our bonds.

Reada, you’ve got the wrong guy. This fellow is far from bring this country to its knees, he is one of the ones who will buy irish bonds (ie lend to us on our terms, rather than behaving like a moneylender) When such a large player expresses confidence about our prospects, it encourages others to do the same. This is what we need to happen to get out from the control of the Troika.

I know ‘bondholder’ is like a swear word these days, but this one is a good thing.

Good, at least most people seem to understand the benefits of attracting investment.

Reada & Eileen (especially Eileen),
Contrary to what you have written this guy is not waiting for ireland to crash and burn. He is infact predicting a significant recovery and putting his money where his mouth is.

Niamh,

The “vulture” funds tend to be hedge funds which go “short” on govt bonds, i.e. they sell them now and predict that the price will go lower at which point they can buy them back and clear their positions and make a tidy profit. Short selling has been around a long time and is even mentioned in one of Shakespear’s plays (though I can’t remember which one).

The short sale is facilitated by “lending”. The lender receives a rent for loaning out the stock.

Banning it has been discussed, and temporary bans were in place before, but they are very hard to maintain.

Tom
I am so honored you singled me out (not)
I still feel after reading the comments here that this guy is a vulture .
I am going to read up more on this article and If i find other wise I will come back and accept
the comments . For now tho I am leaving my comments as is…
Tom , you really are a funny guy .

Reada, Are you sure your not a bit confused here? He’s not an Anglo Irish bondholder, that would possibly warrant your initial comment. He’s a sovereign debt bondholder, these are different things.

Ladies if you think that Hasentab is bad check out this guy that was in the Sunday Times some weeks back http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2044363/Kyle-Bass-Meet-Texan-investor-millions-credit-crunch.html

“Meet the Texan investor who made millions from the credit crunch… and now he stands to make 65,000% profit if Europe goes down the drain”

“He bought Greek default insurance for 11 basis points – meaning insuring $1m of bonds would cost $1,100 dollars a year.

A Greek default would make it pay down its debt by around 70 per cent, meaning every $1,100 bet would net him an astonishing $700,000, Mr Bass said.

Now THAT’S a vulture!

Eileen,

I singled you out because of your comments in particular “He is a vulture , investing hedgefunds in our debt waiting for us to default or pass away.”

I’m sorry to have upset you, but you can clearly see from the article that he actually wants and needs the exact opposite to happen. Have a go at Goldman Sachs and others who shorted (and are still shorting) if you like, but this guy is actually betting ON Ireland, not against it.

I read the fecking article before I commented. Is he going to give Ireland back his profits? He’s a fu€king speculator.

Reada, I’m almost weeping with laughter. You want the guys to loan money to Ireland, against conventional wisdom, and not have a possibility of making money, even though he will only do so if Ireland makes money. There’s politeness and honesty but you are without a doubt one of the dumbest people on the internet.

Thank you Tom. You work in the financial industry so I expect you to admire his type. The day you admire something I say is the day I’ll be worried.
I’d like to tell you you’re the biggest pri€k on the Internet but I would be wrong. You’re small fry!!!

ah ha ha ha. Brilliant. :)

Sorry tom, but you had that one coming.

lol, calm down Réada!!
The anger is good, but focus girl!!
He’s a speculator, he speculates.
It’s our government that’s guaranteed his payments, they’re the ones who have destroyed this country, they’re the ones who are happy to hand over everything whitout so much as a pause for thought.
Look at what’s happening in Greece at the minute 91% of the public don’t want the deal that’s on the table, but their useless political leaders are pushing it through anyway.
We can’t even be arsed getting out to protest here, it’s a lost cause. The shit’s really gonna hit the fan in a year or two, sooner if the Greek public get their way – then everyone will see how futile the bank guarantee and austerity was.
Look out for you and yours – no one else gives a shit.

Yeah the poor Greeks who voted for useless and corrupt politicians repeatedly. Who had a tax system that was basically voluntary so people just didn’t pay. That had no idea how many public sector workers they had. (State buildings had gardeners hired but didn’t have gardens). That lied and cheated to get into the Euro. Yeah the poor Greeks. You reap what you sow.

Hi Paul. Don’t get me started on our FG led government fgs. I’ve said enough already. LOL. 

But when the real shit hits the fan I’ll look after mine but call around for a bowl of Irish stew. Hell I might even give Tom a bowl. Never every man for himself. All together. it’s the only way we’ll get through what’s coming. :-)

And yes Gary. The poor Greeks. Your empathy knows no bounds. We are all Greeks – waiting to happen. God I can’t understand someone who gets satisfaction from someone else’s misery.

Réada

Very well said . Lol.

You think if the politicians did what the people asked they’d have a handier time of it Gary?
hardly, if anything it’d be worse – the point is the government is supposed to serve the people, not corporate interests.
None of this is sustainable. The banks are just doing their best to bleed us all dry before it all goes to the wall.
They’re under the delusion that the public can buffer them from the pain, that if enough austerity is imposed they can plug the gaping hole in the financial system before they’re bled dry like the rest of us – but it’s too late, they’ve dug too big a hole, nobodies getting out of this one and it’s going to be scary. Anyone who thinks these measures are for the good of Europe is either corrupt or deluded IMO.
I’ll gladly accept that bowl of stew Réada :-D (could do with it now actually, it hasn’t been more than -2 degrees over here for the past few weeks! )

“satisfaction from someone else’s misery”… Wtf?? I can’t even imagine where you got that. What I’m talking about is personal responsibility. The problems in Greece were well known by the Greeks, they ran the country very badly and cooked the books. So I can have all the sympathy in the world for the people suffering from austerity but the Greeks still did it to themselves. Now the piper has to be paid. At the end of the day if I shoot myself in the foot why would that be anyone else’s fault.

I was at the Maynooth protest meeting re Household charge there in case ye thought I had fled the scene of my crime. :P

I make a mean Irish Stew Paul. When Gary and Tom can’t pay for their caviar, because these speculators have pocketed their real money to replace the fake computer generated  money they gambled with…. Ah well…

Gary. As I’m talking about cooking stew isn’t it gas that those responsible for “cooking the books” for Greece now have the Chef acting as Prime Minister. Funny that….

Hi Réada
I don’t mean to change the subject ! Were there many at the public meeting there ?

I’d say you’re hi-larious at parties. No idea what your agenda is but it’s certainly not a search for truth.
Perhaps we should campaign for sustainable taxes so the same mess doesn’t happen again. The average person in India pays far more property tax than we do.

Wow….being called a ***ck by Reada…now there’s one classy lady.

But to be honest given your stupidity I didn’t expect you to engage in the debate. So clever.

Great meeting Eileen. A lot of anger and upset with this government.

Tom. I should have listened to my husband when he suggested not conversing with you again since you sent a slimey sexist message direct to my Facebook page. Take this as Goodbye.

Réada
Thanks .
The meetings are really educating people ,that some sources would wish not happen .

Gary wot are you on? Wot part of india exactly do they pay more property tax than us? And how many exactly pay this tax? And wot are you comparing it with? Cos if you are comparing it to the introduction amount then how does that compare to how much we will be chargers next year? And where does this supposed property tax go to? Honestly there are so many holes in that statement that it is falling apart. You probably read that out
of the same book of fiction you read that higher eaeners pay more tax. Is there a fg book of ficticuous facts out there somewhere?

Bloody Hell! You lot have been at it hammer & thongs.
I don’t know an awful lot about this bond trading stuff – never done much for my libido or anything else. But one thing that strikes me as pretty damn sure is; if this guy is buying up E1.9bn. of national debt he is either taking it as a long kick at a wide target with someone in Irish Government Department circles running around the pitch talking to the players.
This lads profit will come from years of kids in prefabs and grannies on trolleys. Granted it makes us look like a sure bet to the market houses – the paper trail looks good! Just to finish my football analogy; the view from the terraces is quiet different. This money props up a creaking economy that in turn pays out on dead banks debts,the markets are happy all round and the next step is the sale of state assets. Then the vultures will swarm in for real. This guy is just a face to hundreds of anonymous corporate investors that couldn’t give a sh*t about grannies nestegg in the bank down street.

Oh now Reada, you’re being a bit hypocritical here. You call me a ****ing p***k….but give out when I asked you to stop with your sexist remarks via FB message.

As I said, one classy lady.

Réada, either stop posting or post when you’re in possession of facts. You’re doing yourself no favours.

Nivag. I’ll post whatever and whenever I choose. Until Journal bar me that is. When you become Editor then you can tell me what to do. I’ll wait to see a few flying pigs though first. >:-/

It wasn’t an order, Réada, more a piece of advice.

good interview, but like the comments on youtube say, she should stop interrupting him mid-reply. One thing’s for sure, these guys know their business.
The difference between these guys and economists who tried to bring these crashes to the attention of the public and governments is the guys that publicly flagged it were branded as ‘quacks’, scaremongers and loonie lefties.
This guy doesn’t pretend he’s not profiting by this, but he doesn’t pull any punches either.
Refreshing to watch, needs someone with a better understanding to ask the questions though.

Wish I found it ;)

Why? It’s in his interest that Ireland does well. It’s in Ireland’s interest that Ireland does well. Why would you want to cut your nose off to spite your face?

Not planning on cutting any noses Tom, I just meant its pretty disgusting that some scumbag in NY potentially will profit so much on the country’s misery. Must be a really pathetic way to live your life, but I guess you have to be pragmatic and accept that’s life and these financial types pretty much run the world.

Paul there are a lot sb’s here and in Europe doing pretty well from our misfortune!!
Only difference is he is waiting for us to default

Paul,

I think he is in California, not NY, but that’s neither here nor there.

I am more interested to discover why you think he is a scumbag?

Regards

Eileen, your ignorance is actually astounding. Dr. Hasenstab is not only not waiting for us to default, he is actually going to benefit more by Ireland not defaulting.

Its a personal distaste I have for these profiteers Tom. No need to upset yourself over it:-)

Why would he be waiting for us to default?
If we default he doesn’t get the money he has lent to the government back.
Why do I get the feeling most commenter’s haven’t got a clue what a bond is.

Oh here we go . Tom I did not call any one a scum bag !
the new york times was mentioned . ok

Eileen,

You’re so dumb it’s funny. Paul called him a scumbag and mentioned “some guy in NY”…and I even mentioned that his location was of no consequence.

Paul,
There is nothing wrong with making a profit. It’s not making a profit and screwing taxpayers is where the problem lies. And moreover this guy has gone “long” on Irish bonds, so in fact he is not making money out of our misery….but actually out of our success.

I am not upset, just merely pointing out your inaccuracies. :)

Tom you can make ur point without being so rude. Calling people names does not make you more intelligent.

Eileen, I think you have this guy mixed up with another group. This is one of the good guys, who is investing in Ireland’s future, expressing optimism that we will recover, and by going public with this, helps restore market confidence.

Oh Tom, so very nice of you. I do apologise for putting NY instead of California! I’m glad you are not too upset to point out my inaccuracy:-)
Morally though I do question making a profit on something that only becomes tangible (financial markets) when it effects peoples lives. Ask yourself what is international finance? None of it is real. Its just all made up so some fat cats can control the rest of us. The only thing real about playing these games is that at the end of the day somebody suffers.

Sorry Niamh,

But there is so much inaccurate BS here it is astonishing. Look at some of the remarks here.

No need to beat yourself up Tom, we all make mistakes and we are all entitled to our opinions!

Paul, what are you on about?

Are you trying to have the last word Tom?

Not at all Paul, and infact I would encourage you to give a more full answer.

Why would I beat myself up?

Give as full an answer as you want (and just so we don’t have a “last word contest”, I’ll agree not to respond so you can have the last word.)

Gosh you are very prickly Tom. You should lighten up a bit and learn to take a joke from time to time. In the words of Kanye, Imma let you finish. Go on, knock yourself out:-)

P Wurple
This guy is in the business of making money for himself and or his clients .

Eileen, aren’t we all?

No.

Good grief

Just to clarify
I earned my money the way most decent people do.
That is to have a job ,that I carried out honestly and dilligently.
One which I was proud to have and it did not threaten anyone’s
savings or pensions. Yes I earned my money the hard way day
by day and not on the mood of financial markets that threatened
my earnings, or old age pensions,invalidity pensions,or even jobs.
I did not gamble my earnings in any shape or form ,I never even play bingo.
I earned enough to support my family .
There is a limit . When is enough enough ?
I have never received money that I have not earned
I am lucky ,I was never unemployed .
So ”Good grief ”all you want . I am not gambling my country’s future,nor are
the majority of people on this thread or in this country. All we want is fair play and honesty

Thumb up for you Eileen:-)

Thanks Paul

Just to clarify, Eileen, you were working to make money for yourself, as P. Wurple intimated.

Just to make it abundantly clear
I earned my money honestly.As I am sure P Wurple does too, and like most decent people, I did not earn it to bail out thieving bankers or speculators,or developers who with their careless and proven risky gambling ,have not only threatened but seriously damaged my way of life and that of my family’s , but the lives of my friend’s neighbour’s and my country. So no , I will not be told that I am wrong or to shut up .
Enough is enough.

Eileen, yes of course I earn my money honestly, but I would love you to acknowledge that this is not as black and white as you are implying. I understand the media has whipped everyone up into a panic about anything financial, but we need to be able to pick it apart ourselves. People who make financial transactions or who work in financial institutions are not all inherently evil. I’ve seen tellers in the local bank branch getting abuse hurled at them by people who say they have brought down the country. They have done no such thing. Some friends who lost their jobs in an IFSC layoff were told they deserve it by the local FAS office person. That’s just not right, these people were IT staff.

I put some of my wages in the local Credit Union as savings. I earn dividends on it, because other people in my community borrow it. Do you believe it is morally wrong to do that?

Someone gave my daughter a prize bond. She is now the owner of some sovereign debt. Is she a vulture?

I know these are smaller scale, but this guy has bought government bonds and will receive a return on them. Yes he will make money, as will I on my credit union savings, as will my daughter on her prize bond. Why is that gambling or damaging?

It’s not the same as short selling at all.

@ Paul M, where did i say he doesn’t short? Of course he could in a given situation. Fund managers are investors looking for the best possible returns, and that can be in a market going up or down. They make money buying bonds promising healthy yields from profligate governments like we had. Our government supported by all of the opposition parties increased Social welfare, Public pay and pensions, expenditure in health without payback of improved service all on the back of an ignorant belief that a semi-detached house in suburban Dublin would eventually cost more than a Park avenue penthouse . Then , guess what, the market collapses just like every other one in history has and a two years later we take in 18 billion less than we spend . Now do you really think our little trader is our problem? It’s this level of ignorance and focus on our real problems that means we will be in the shit for the next 10 years. Paul you and your ignorant co –hort are the problem not the solution.

These Shiesters play with countries, economies and peoples lives like some kind of a a Psychotic Villain torturing and bleeding his helpless victims dry in a sick horror movie.
All with the help of the local governments.

And some of you guys are trying to make this guy sound like Mother Teresa.

A few of them are in the financial industry. They know no better.

The guy wants to make money, that’s his job. He’s not doing anything unethical or immoral. Unless of course making money fairly is immoral. When you have more money to invest you can earn more but you can also lose more.
I have a dream that one day I’ll come in and Réada will have something nice to say or she’ll just stop sitting here day in and day out being negative.

Yeah Gary

And I hear Goldman Sachs are going into home help for the elderly.

Snout nosed ”stock jockeys” like this guy produce nothing only destruction .

Gary Clowry
” I have a dream t hat one day I’ll come in and Réada will have something nice to say or she’ll just stop sitting here day in and day out being negative.”
that is really an unnecessary comment to Réada. She like me you and any one else is free to have an
opinion here. I think Réada and a few others are very kind and witty . That is my opinion .

‘ ‘ The guy wants to make money, that’s his job. He’s not doing anything unethical or immoral. Unless of course making money fairly is immoral. When you have more money to invest you can earn more but you can also lose more.”

Have you never heard of the first rule of gambling ? If you cannot afford to lose, you cannot afford to win .:)

Is it wrong to wish that people would stop being negative all the time? Though I suppose I’d be happy if they could be factually correct even half the time.
I get the feeling the guy can afford to lose.

Gary
I have no idea who you were directing that comment at , I am certainly not a negative person .
However I do not go around with my head buried in the sand.This attitude may not suit you and some others .
I am going to continue to question and argue for my right to maintain my Irish Sovereignty !

I thought it was quite obvious I was directing it to you Eileen. My head isn’t buried anywhere thanks. But I have a rule, if a stranger in the internet tells me something I expect proof before I believe it. Many of you are long on opinion and very very short on proof. From my own checking that is because what you’re saying is often not factually correct.
I’m not sure how we’d go back to those halcyon days of sovereignty since they didn’t exist. Ireland has never been sovereign and in a globalised world never can be, no small resource poor country ever can be. It’s actually funny that many of you are claiming that Germany is bullying us in the EU. But out of the EU there no levelling of the playing field and Germany will always be richer, bigger and more powerful. If you think we are being bullied now believe me out of the EU we are fair game.

Gary
” All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.”
I do not intend to do nothing!
Have a nice evening !

Avoidance or name calling.
Avoidance it is.

Gary
I do not avoid any thing . I have strongly held opinions ,which are never very far from the truth
I have very good instinct which has mostly seen me through a lot of stuff, and I am a great
believer in what will be will be .
I do not however believe in using other people’s backs to stand upon to promote my self. I do not believe it is
morally right or fair to force hard working decent people into poverty to save very wealthy people,
banks, developers or speculators. Like I said earlier how much is enough ?

Hi Gary, regarding this comment:

“Is it wrong to wish that people would stop being negative all the time? Though I suppose I’d be happy if they could be factually correct even half the time.
I get the feeling the guy can afford to lose.”

Absolutely not wrong, I’m a very positive person in real life – but while I’ve moved on from the disaster that’s happened to our country a long time ago (I’m doing everything in my power to move on) I refuse to forget what those fuckers did/ are doing to our country. Things cannot continue as they are, not fairly, not democratically.
There are plenty of other websites that aren’t news related, that aren’t posting articles that relate to the demise of our country in one form or another – we can go to them to get away from these types of arguments, but as long as we’re not seeing real change in Ireland I’m gonna keep bitching and moaning on news sites like this.
I’ve posted many links to information supporting my take on things on this site, even on specific topics when asked, yet I get no reply when I do that, no rebuttle at all.

It seems to me that you guys rattle on about a positive outlook, and having no facts/proof just stick your heads in the sand when presented with a coherent argument , then come back with statements like the above claiming we don’t know what we’re talking about.

Paul the problem is not just the negativity. People are ranting about stuff that isn’t even factually correct. Every day I here people screaming about the bankers, let me explain what I think.

I would take this back to the hammering FG got in the 2002 election for suggesting spending restraint, this to me is one of major points when it all when wrong. It taught political parties that offering restraint was a bad idea, even if in reality it was a good idea. We as a society got greedy. In the 90′s we worked hard to get where we were but by the 2000’s many were looking for fast easy ways to make money, enter a property bubble.

All through the 2000’s the majority paid less and less tax but spending, wages and public sector employment went up and up. We had huge increases in social welfare and public sector pay and a large decrease in our competitiveness as a country. FF told us there would be ‘light touch’ regulation. There was little objection to this from anyone and FF got elected three times in a row.

Over the 2000’s a number of taxes and charges were proposed, sustainable ones, such as property, water and bins. These brought a widespread public outcry and still do proving we haven’t learned a damn thing about the need for sustainable taxes and why nearly every other country on the planet has them.

We borrowed 70 billion to fund our banks, this is not great. But we’ve borrowed 110billion to fund our day to day spending deficit, that is far worse. That’s to pay social welfare, nurses, guards etc. All I hear is how the bankers and bonder holders are scum. But why aren’t people ranting about the things that will actually cost us by far the most money? I’d imagine it’s just more difficult to demonise your friends and family who might be unemployed or work for the government.

We as a nation brought us here.

I take your points Gary, but more of the same will definitely not improve the situation.
We need fresh thinking, new ideas and a whole new system.
All I see is idiot politicians fumbling from crisis to crisis without a notion of what they’re supposed to be doing.
And every move sucks more life out of this country, not to mention the rest of Europe too.
This a sham – it needs to stop.

So what’s your suggestion for paying the bills?

So basically you want the Morgan Kelly nuclear option of adjusting the budget in -

wait for it

ONE YEAR!

Man, when I thought we had austerity, wait until you see what a one year adjustment would be like.

We’d make Greece look like a tiger economy!!

Magic beans. We could always pay the guards and nurses in magic beans.

You people need to stop playing the short game.

Michael Hasenstab-ed-us-in-the-back-Yet. LOL