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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67A1ZdLYhOs
TÁNAISTE EAMON GILMORE has said that a Budget adjustment of €3.1 billion is not necessary in order for the State to reach a deficit to GDP ratio of 5.1 per cent next year.
Speaking to the media ahead of a Cabinet meeting in Dublin today, Gilmore said that no figure had yet been agreed but said he has been maintaining since the summer that the Troika-mandated target could be met without taking €3.1 billion out of the economy in spending cuts and tax rises.
He said that the final figure cannot be agreed until closer to the Budget on 15 October when more economic information is available.
Speaking a short time later, his Labour colleague and Public Expenditure and Reform Minister Brendan Howlin acknowledged the difficulties created by an earlier Budget.
“Some of the projections we’re doing are less firm than normal because they’re not end of year figures. It’s going to be very difficult,” he said.
- with reporting and videos by Nicky Ryan
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Do you ever feel that you are part of this charade in Politics it’s like a soap opera and you are the pleb observing.
They apparently STILL think the recession is an accounting problem and it’s only about how little or how much we cut that the debate is to be over, no wonder were in trouble.
Imagine if they’d focused on growth and economic reform how much better off we’d be now
Ryan
We export over ineptly per cent of what we manufacture and our international customers are seeing demand in their countries fall so that are buying less from us. Worse than this is the huge fall off in Pharmaceutical exports due to patent erosion.
It would therefor be much wiser to get the costs side of our economy right before we start stimulating production for which there is no demand.
Your looking at the problem wrong.
We have a deficit because we have a recession, not the other way around, and we have a recession because we don’t have growth. We did not have an abstractly expensive state before this, in fact our welfare state is tiny compared to our European neighbours most of whom have free health and education and very diffrent public transport systems etc
The way to fix growth is economic reform mixed with stimulus ((one is no good without the other)).
We keep cutting back thinking we can balance the books that way, it just feeds into an ever deflating cycle to do that it tanks growth more which means less tax revenue = the perceived need for more cutting which starts the cycle all over again.
We worship the Germans so much maybe we ought to do some of what they did, they did not do endless austerity they put together a very aggressive growth package.
Eamon Eamon Eamon nobody believes a word out of your mouth anymore. We all remember Frankfurt’s way and all the other crap that came out of your mouth. Why don’t you take a day off and just tell the truth for a change. Maybe then you might earn abit of respect from the country.
What would you like him to say ?
The truth. That he hasn’t a clue what he is doing and that he is told what to say by the spin doctors.
@cooperguy. Just be honest. Instead of trying to telling us what we want to hear and then when action is needed telling us his hands are tied or some other excuse.
F*** all
Eamon couldn’t spell the f**king turth, let alone speak it.Wikileaks has exposed him as a barefaced liar.
Neither can you apparently
Norman
You’ve finally reached the basement levels with your vulgarity and libellous comment . How could anyone have any respect for your viewpoints when couched like this and so much worse when that foul tongue of yours is wagged in such a public way. For my part I would dearly love Mr Gilmore to tire of you and seek compensation in the Courts.
:-)
We,d like him to say sorry we made a hugged mistake no more monies to be paid to bondholders . The billions is to be spent on focusing on the economy and growth .
Ahem… Just write “I work for Labour or know Eamonn.”
Not €3.1 billion Eamon? What are you looking for €3 billion in cuts? You will probably claim that as a victory. You want to bring in cuts then cut TD and special advisor’s salaries by 50% first. After all in these times everyone needs to make a sacrifice.
If they need advisors they shouldn’t be doing the job in the first place.
Does he think we are fools? Trying to play the hero and dupe people into thinking a €2.5b or €2.8b is somehow a victory.
Obama has a team of hundreds, probably thousands of advisers. Expecting politicians to be expert in every single policy area is stupid. I’d rather someone in charge who listens to a wide variety of advice and then proceeds, than somebody who doesn’t heed any advice whatsoever.
While I do agree the salaries are too high, this anti-adviser attitude would probably make for worse policy-making.
Ryan FF had adviser’s coming out of their ears fat lot of good it did Ireland. Being appointed on the bases of who you know doesn’t really mean you may be the best qualified.
@Kerry they had advisors from the school of economics that got us into this mess, the mad thing is they are still listening now to the people who said ”be grand…soft landing” even though every prediction theyv’e mades been proven wrong and some of their methodology for crunching numbers disproven
Thats what you all get when you hire former publicans and sec school teachers to be your leaders for stupid reasons like ‘he got me ma a medical card’ and he fixed dat pothole on moore st
Advisors = jobs for the boys
Some advisers are quite well qualified. Others aren’t and have, as Kerry says, appointed on the basis of who they know. The latter should be eliminated. But the point still stands that expecting politicians to be expert in every single policy area is stupid.
Ryan tell them the truth, most ministerial ‘advisors’ are actually glorified personal assistants and have no real advisory role at all, they just call them that cos you cant pay a PA six figures…
Ryan:
I stand by what I said that some are and some are not. The source of this stance was a profile of the various advisers last year in the Irish Daily Mail last year. It also took a line of “all advisers are bad” but when you read the specific experiences that *some* had, then I arrived at a more reasoned judgement rather than the populist ones thrown about here.
We’ve a lot of common ground here. But I’m just not going along with the glib “all advisers are unnecessary” argument.
As long as happy Gilmores getting his pension he doesn’t give a monkeys
When they talk about taking out 3.1 billion, (or some similar, slightly discounted amount), does anyone know if this includes the water charges and doubling of the property tax (paying 12 months instead of 6 months), or are these additional cuts/taxes on top of these new charges?
Does it really make much of a difference?
Additional charges / cuts Colin.
They really need to give the people a break, why not concentrate on allowing the economy to recover rather than slaughter us back into recession. Just like last year
To continue our credibility with the international markets, on whom we are reliant to fund our exit from the bailout.
Surely we would be better off growing the economy to meet the deficit targets. It’s time we start thinking of ourselves
Another round of cuts risks driving us back into recession again. We should delay the cuts and give the economy another year and see where we are then. Look what the last cuts did. We have the momentum now why risk it when we really might not have to?
Ryan…er…it was us that bailed the markets out, actually, and doing so bankrupted us, allowing the markets to sell us our own money back to fund the deficit that would not have existed but for the markets fk up..
@ Kyle: Most tax income comes in to the Government in the final quarter of the year. Thus they need to borrow to pay social welfare and other costs during the early stages of the year. Kind of like an overdraft at a massive level. Plus while they would like nothing more to not have to cut again this year (politicians love to be popular after all!), it wouldn’t be good for the country in the long run if they back down on previously agreed targets. The cost of borrowing would likely increase, making it more difficult to exit the bailout.
@ Ryan: Irregardless of what happened in the past, the Government is still dependent on borrowings from the markets. If they decided to go it alone and leave the markets, then there would be far greater austerity. And it would be overnight austerity.
This website randomly prevents me from posting certain word combinations and its really starting to get on my nerves its preventing me from answering people when they talk to me
Ryan my main problem is were hurtling headlong into a second crash with the risks being taken in the financial markets in the states now and they are doing nothing in the eurozone to stop the same risks here even though the markets they are playing in atm are bigger than our entire GDP so if they crash bailing them out is not possible which = total global financial collapse
That might be so. These things are impossible to predict. But the basic point still stands – if we want out of the bailout, we need the markets to help fund us.
See I know that, on a raw pragmatic level.
I just don’t think we should be seeing ‘the markets’ as this holy delverance, yes it’s better than the IMF because it means we get to dictate our own policy agenda, but ‘the markets’ are selling us our own money back for 3-4 times what we gave it to them at thru the central banks.
The real sign that were out of this mess will be when all our costs are covered by healthy growth balooning the tax receipts so we have a balanced budget.
I agree that they should not be seen as a “holy delverance” but equally their impact and importance should not be understated.
Also even if there was ballooning tax receipts, loans from the markets would still be necessary as most Government income comes in towards the end of the year while expenses are incurred throughout the year.
I think its necessary to cut the gigantic problem that is ministers pay and allowance. Then come back and talk budget you hypocrite.
Eh they’ve done that repeatedly (most recently in July – link attached) and every time they do it people seem to forget or say that’s not enough and then call for further cuts to politicians’ pay before talking about what really needs to be done. That’s just a stalling tactic to allow angry commenters come on here and rant and avoid having a real discussion on how we are supposed to make up our deficit.
http://www.thejournal.ie/taoiseach-ministers-public-servants-pay-cuts-976714-Jul2013/
So your telling me ministers aren’t overpaid? Everytime they take a “cut” its made out to be huge. Fact is ministers in Ireland are amongst the highest paid in the world! With pension to match, not a good fact in a country of 4 million people and broke.
I’m not saying that. What I am saying is that regardless of whether they’re cut or not, either taxes will have to be increased or expenditure decreased. So to say we’re not going to talk about it until ministers take a pay cut is just a stunt to deflect from the real issues.
Labour’s attempt to put some “clear air” between Fine Gael and themselves?
It’s a bit late for that, Eamon, especially since the country has been bled dry – so whether the cuts are €3.1 billion or €2.5 billion, it make no difference. Overt poverty is about to hit the streets of Ireland again.
Eh it makes €600 million of a difference, actually.
A case of dead horses and flogging
Yeah and what are we going to do with that 600 million, it will make absolutely no difference in terms of relief to those who are under seriously financial difficulty, it’s no more that a pr stunt now that the European and local elections are coming up. And the fact that labour are trying to distance themselves at this late stage shows exactly what the pedigree is about. Their socialist policies are a failed philosophy that they don’t adopt or believe themselves.
Okay, then by that logic it would make no difference to take €3.7 billion out of the economy instead of €3.1 billion, because apparently €600 million is nothing. It’s a stupid argument. Of course €600 million more in the Irish economy makes a difference. €600 million more in the economy is along the lines of what all the anti-austerity commenters want. And when they are getting politicians arguing for this easing of austerity they’re still not happy.
Secondly, how is half way through a government life time a “late stage”? Football is a game of 1 half, right?!! That’s also a stupid argument.
And thirdly, how can you say it’s “socialist policies” that ruined Ireland or the world economy? Try “neo-liberal lassiez faire zero market regulation, i.e. the complete opposite of socialist policies.
Firstly there is no guarantee that there will not be the full amount of 3.1 billion will not be taken out as that’s what the troika is insisting on. So to posture up to the idea that this is a big political stance is nothing more than playing to your audience in other words a PR STUNT. Secondly the fact that Labour is now trying to make some sort of stance against FG is laughable, they are going to get hammered in the next election and they know it. They have disenfranchised their core supporters ie single males between 24-50 and have left them with no option to go to SF and that’s a fact. Now with regards to your silly idea that socialism is not a failed philosophy then go and check your history books and stop your farcical idea that it works.
And by the way I run my own business and have done so on the sweat and hard work of my own, without any help from banks or government. Have you or are you just some blogger who likes thes Lund of his own insignificant voice. Keyboard hero
Your probably in your 20s living with your parents, and thinks he actually knows how the world works or should work.
Premier Car Care, you did not rebut a single one of my arguments.
As you’re a business owner you should be hoping that the government leaves €600 million extra in the economy so people can actually buy your services. Again, you’ve blamed socialism for the current recession. And this is completely wrong. You can say it’s failed and point to the USSR and that would be a grand analogy, but you can’t blame it for the current crisis which was caused by a lack of regulation and over-lending by banks, which by the way are PRIVATE COMPANIES.
You also criticise yourself by saying that young males are disenfranchised and have no choice but to vote for SF, but then you appear to attack these 20 somethings who live at home with their parents?
Nowhere I repeat Nowhere did I say that socialism was to blame for Ireland’s problems. I really cannot understand how you get that from what I posted. So ill say it again. My posts relate directly to your claim that Labour shouldn’t be criticised for coming out only now multiple budgets later and start posturing to the public and their supporters in saying the budget figures should be less. They didn’t do it before and only now are they beginning to act on their policies the campaigned on. This is nothing more than pr stunts. So far so good yes. Secondly their main supports are WORKING CLASS men between 24-50 that should be really self evident to you considering I’m talking about the Labour Party. They have let their core support go and by their dismal polling this shows from many different polls that most of them have gone to SF as a result.
The fact that you think the 600 million or whatever will go into the domestic market shows how little you understand of people’s financial difficulties. It will not be spent in the domestic market trust me. The only way to get people spending is through confidence and there is none. I mean this is basic stuff.
As for socialism as a philosophy my point is that Labour who embraces these ideas a part of their make up, have failed to emplement them, as they have been nothing more than FG lackeys.
So for them now to start shows how desperate they are, they know they will be hammered in the elections.
The cuts need to start in the public service offices. They leak money from inefficiency of how management run them. The office of public works should be struck off!
Eh Google “Haddington Road Agreement”.
Labour starting their reelection campaign early, God knows they need too.
I’ll only consider voting Labour if they reform the party.
The only ‘deficit’ we have in this country is of politicians who actually give a sh!t about the Irish people and who are genuinely in the job because they truly want to make this country great and are not self serving prats!
Eamon Gilmore – defining clueless halfwit on a daily basis since the 60′s! The empty vessel continues to make the most noise.
What’s he talking about, maybe he’s reading off somebody else’s script.
If he’s not an economist I don’t really care
@ Colin don’t think that includes them taxes , think they were implemented as part of last years budget.
As long as they think they’ll get away with it,They’ll take as much as they can. Why would they stop, when they know that nothing can stop them? They need as much now, in order to deliver two softer budgets leading up to the next election. By softer I mean reducing taxes for the wealthy and powerful. The least well off will still be expected to take the majority of the pain.
Spoke to someone recently who works in public expenditure and reform, he said it would be 3.2 billion this year.
You heard it here first folks…
:D
O’Reilly
Won’t we still be paying 7/8 billion in interest every year after we balance our public spending budget. Is that sustainable?
I think if this austerity continues FG’s policies are going to come under serious scrutiny. They have done a good job in getting the country back on track but I think even FG voters would expect austerity to end then – not if we are paying 7/8 billion in interest payments every year.
For the ordinary person the outlook is uncertain with no guarantees of any corner being turned.
Stay the course. Make the adjustment and get clear of this. A temporary stay won’t change anything – people will simply brace themselves for the cuts the following year. Get it done now and take full control of our finances in 2015…
I don’t usually comment on these sites but the above argument made by persons where they decipher that if the government impose cuts or taxes of €3.1 billion instead of €3.7 billion will in effect result in an extra 600 million in the economy??? How did you figure that one out??? They still intend that an additional €3.1 billion removed from the economy in 2014. Only zero cuts & no further tax increases along with an additional €600 million being pumped into the economy would mean that there is an extra €600 million. The disparity in wealth just grows & grows with economic policies which claim to share the burden of taxation but instead disproportionately load it onto low to middle income earners. Money makes money…just ask the Germans & the bond holders. Whether you take €3.1 billion or €3.7 billion out of an economy, that economy is still, at best, €3.1 billion worse off!! To think you are €600 million better off is exactly what gangster politicians want you to think & judging by the comments above some people are actually believing this spin!
have your say