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ALL OF THE major European stock markets have opened 2 per cent or more down in early trading as fears grow over the stability of some Eurozone countries.
Following on from heavy losses on Wall Street yesterday and more turmoil in the Asian markets over night, the global equity sell-off has continued this morning.
In London the FTSE is down 2.9 per cent and in Frankfurt, the Dax is down 3.95 per cent.
In Milan the main index is down 3.5 per cent, in Paris it is 3.07 per cent, and finally in Madrid, it’s not much better where the main index is down 2.4 per cent.
You can follow the latest rises and, most probably, dips in the markets throughout the day over on Bloomberg with trading to open in the US later today.
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Did anyone really expect anything else. Italy, Spain & US bankrupt as well as Ireland, Greece & Portugal. What other countries can be added to the list. The whole developed world has been on a spending spree for the last 10 to 15 years. Spending money that never existed.
so the euro is only months a way from collapse . anyone remember signing of on the Lisbon treaty , well I blame you. we voted no the first time for a reason now look at the s**t we are in. Europe bent us over backwards and took one for the team. Europe has screwed us over way to much.
How would our postiion be any better if we voted no to the Lisbon Treaty? We’d still be in the Euro, our housing market still would have crashed and global stock markets would still be collapsing today.
No, you are right on the first count. We joined the euro by stealth when we voted for the Nice Agreement. the joining of the euro was hidden in paragraph 17 (or whatever) and it was kept well out of the limelight. the first I ever heard of it in the mainstream media was an article in the middle pages of the Irish Examiner about the design of the Irish euro coin … not, let it be noted, on whether we should join up or not. Then we were all told we had voted for it. The reasons for keeping out of the euro were being pointed out on the sidelines, and resolutely ignored by the main political parties and their lackeys in the national dailies, and they were precisely what we are now hearing.
A nation which cannot control its borders and its currency is not a nation but a pretend nation. A small nation that gets into economic trouble can devalue its currency and thereby bring a flow of wealth back into the national economic sphere. A pegged currency prevents this self-correcting mechanism from operating. All this was pointed out in detail at the time.
Ah well, at least We Told Them So.
Well well well, we’ve, finally, reached the end game. We’ve been royally screwed over be by europe. The situation is now definitely FUBAR. No amount of positivity is going to fix this mess… Could the last person out please turn out the lights and the immersion.
no point turning off the appliances – power’s off cos we couldn’t afford it
Agreed. The Euro will leave the continent in tatters. I have no doubt that in their efforts to save their beloved little personal project that they will lay waste to half the continent. Well said Numé..
I have no shame in saying I voted yes for Lisbon after voting no the first time and I was very very wrong. Sold a pup and genuinely thought that me, my family and my friends would be better off with more influence from Europe, taking into account ff were at the wheel at the time. This is an absolute disaster, the whole developed world seems to be bankrupt and from what? I never could afford a mortgage or ever had multiple credit cards so I don’t like the insinuations that we all "partied". Anyway if nothing else at least we are all going down together!
The Uk is also massively in debt and is in just as bad a position as the euro zone economies so watch that space. The Uk has the ability to print money but the financial melt down will really hurt. Germany which is a export driven economy will be really badly hit by the double dip recession which has already taken hold in the US. A Recession double dip in the USA is really bad news for irelands exporting sector.
We are now in the end game and I believe the euro is gone it will be gone by December. The euro zone has yet to print money and this may happen.
It’s time for the bloody Irish government to plan for the end of the euro. The government should be printing a new currency now and have it ready instead of allowing us to walk blindly into a situation where the euro is gone. I really hope somebody smart at the top is planning for this to emerge.
We will have to devalue our new currency at 40% less than the current value and burn bank debt and change bankruptcy laws fast to allow the people of ireland to get out of unsustainable debts.
The sooner this happens the better how can the economy improve when the people are drowning in a mountain of debts.
We should plan for debt forgiveness of 51% on mortgages taken out since 2004 so the public can stay in their homes and actually survive the crisis. Also we need to keep ourselves ahead of our competition re a new currency and fast.
Time has run out there is a black Monday coming and fast.
After all Iceland has survived and we can too.
Whats next? War?
Happy to say I voted No to Lisbon both times.
Paul, it would be nice if we had somewhere to go to.
Willy, you must have been away for the last ten years- you missed 9/11, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Lebanon (twice or was it three times), Georgia, most of Africa….
Diarmaid, no we’re not all going down together. The big economies will destroy the small ones in an effort to save their own skins.
Hang on a minute. Why should people have the debts they themselves have run up forgiven?? To the detriment of those who did not run up debts and to their own profit. Why on earth should people have more than half their mortgage forgiven when tens of thousands did not over extend themselves financially… People who chose not to or just plain couldn’t afford to buy a house or apt are suffering too you know. I don’t see that it is particularly fair to suggest that those people should take the brunt of irresponsible borrowing. I know people, many people who knew they were over extending themselves when applying for mortgages even when times were good for them. People who paid part of their mortgage from their credit cards and various other shenanigans that went on to convince banks to give them the loans. No one puts a gun to your head and says you must take out a mortgage. Owning a home is an aspiration not a god given right. The only entitlement to owning a home comes from your ability to pay for it.
How anyone could have thought that kind of borrowing was responsible I do not know. Surely one of the major factors one considers when attempting to buy property is ability to pay the loan back, income protection and insurance against unemployment and illness or incapacitation. And seriously if after a year of battling through on an income protection payment etc if the situation is still bad you sell the property and go back to living with family, renting and putting your name on the housing lust like everybody else has to.
I fully respect and understand your position on debt forgiveness Róisín but at this point we are so far beyond that conversation that it is now irrelevant. We have passed the point of “Who did this?”, “How could this happen?”, “It wasn’t me” and so forth…
A whole plethora of people caused, took part in and got burned during this recession. From the very tip top down, Bertie, McCreevey, Cowen, Goggin, Fingleton, Fitzpatrick et al.. Right down to the regular mortgage holder urged onwards and upwards by those gobshites at the top.
Right now that mess is so big and so serious that all avenues must be considered. The only way out that I can see out is to print the “Punt Nua”, drop out of the Euro, Carry out Quantitive Easing on a massive scale and then hold on to our butts.
As I said in a previous post – This is the end game of a very long and protracted disaster.
The reason I believe in debt forgiveness is because the banks and 60 or so citizens have destroyed our countries economy and if the ordinary citizen who trusted the banks had any idea that 60 people and the banks were gambling like madmen in the 100s of billions with secret private land deals I am sure nobody would have bought property since 2003/4 .
So I believe that people have been sold mortgages without having the full knowledge that the lending institutions had available to them at the time that the mortgages were a trap for the banks and developers to first make a joint killing on developing the land then make a killing on sale of property and finally make a 30 year killing on mortgages. I believe that because the gambling with the banks got out of hand they were aware that they had created a self-fulfilling prophesy and then hid the truth while not coming clean and therefor mis-sold mortgages to ordinary citizens. Somebody somewhere in Ireland will take a case against their bank and claim they were mis-sold a mortgage and win in the court and that opens a flood gate for debt forgiveness to take place and the sooner the better. Because when people can recover from the debt trap they will return to normal spending and that will create the environment for business to recover and that will lead to job creation.
We need jobs to be created to save the future of our economy.
I am expecting an alien ship to enter orbit at any stage now.
If it is the aliens from V. I suggest that we give them all FF members as an offering, on condition that they are canned for food straight away and all FG TD’s for scientific experimentation.
For those who voted yes to Lisbon shame on you. A Treaty OVERRIDES All European countries constitutions. You gave them the legal power to do what ever they want. It’s like signing into a contract withoundressing the small print.The voting centres were making you tick a box with fucking pencils. Wake up! The world is now on the brink of all out war again & wether you want to believe it or not everything that’s happening now will be nothing compared to what’s coming.
Ah no John!!!!!!!!!…………please dont go…………..
Brian….it sounds like Apocolypse reading the stuff here…..Ireland will pull through this and I feel we will do so strongest of the Europeans that are in so much trouble now, we are being collectively calm and considered and pain will be the medicine we must swallow…..but, just look at the disaster thet is unfolding in Ethiopia right now,,
We are not cradling our starving children in our arms with absolutely no hope….come the day that you and I have to switch off our internet because we cannot afford it or maybe even the power to turn on the pc is too costly, then you may then begin to understand that we are presently the lucky ones……now go browse the latest on Ethiopia and the maybe you will “follow” ……..
.turn off your pc and go walk 5 miles for a cup of water and then consider who the fuck was sold the lemon!!!!!!!!
The whole finiancial system is breaking down. Just wait until 2 pm and the ass-kicking the Dow is about to get. Hold on folks it’s 5,000 point dive and it’s underway. Assets are too over priced worldwide.
Roisin, some of what you say in undoubtedly true. But there are many people who do not fall neatly into the model of “irresponsible borrowing”.
The banks were throwing money galore at people. Many of these people should never have been encouraged by the banks to take the money, let alone have qualified for these loans. I personally was plagued by fone calls from banks trying to ply me with money, and believe me my income was low.
And what of the families with several children who lived in their ‘own’ home for several years, but due to the banks globally who gambled on a scale thats breathtaking, have now lost their jobs and may well lose their homes through no fault of their own? And to really kick them in the nuts, they along with every man jack of us have now got to pay for the banks gambling debts… Jesus Christ, the outrage of it. I suppose u’d tell them to bugger off back to their parents… please…
Anyway,
We need to wake up, as many of us are. The old model of the money as debt, fractional reserve banking etc scam is coming crashing down.
We were sold a lemon.
Well John,
thanks very little for you sarcastic response.
i no longer want to be a good little European citizen.
And thanks i might just take ur advice and go for a little walk.
I donate to 2 charities every month by direct debit, small amouts but its there every month.
If i want to post on a thread regarding whats happening in Ethiopia, then i will,
and i suggest u do the same and stop trying to derail this one.
@Paul Beggan.
Spot on. Even reading that gives me hope. Our current position is desperate. Our main problem is being in the euro. We have to leave it now.
I fear that could bring us a whole new set of problems though. Personally I think the sterling or even tagging off the sterling is looking mighty attractive, even if that doesn’t bode well with a heavy % of Irish people! This is about survival now!
Eh if we left the euro and denominated our own currency things would be considerably worse than they are now. Inflation and interest rates would go through the roof. Mass mortgage repossessions would happen, consumer demand would be depressed and higher unemployment. I do recognise though that the current Euro position is doing us no favours but at the same time it’s keeping us from sinking altogether.
I said that leaving the euro would bring problems. It was even the first line I wrote!
Diarmaid untwist your knickers there that comment was a reply to Willy.
Thanks for such a mature response. Apologies for my mistake!
Thanks Paul youve just scared the the shit out of me …
Aristotle said: “Asking the right question is half of knowing.” (c.f. Metaphysics II, (III), i.)
Two decades ago now I was at a public meeting in Co. Mayo where it was announced, in dramatic tones of doom, “All the Western Nations are in debt”. A month later a senior EC official was in town for another public meeting. I recalled this comment and remarked, “We can’t ALL be in debt to, can we? You can’t have debtors without creditors. So who are we in debt to? And in the news recently it said that the German government was not in control of the Deutchmark. Well, if they are not in control of their own currency, who is?” The senior EC official seemed to me to be an honest man, and he replied, I cannot answer these questions”. Notice: he didn’t say, “I don’t know”.
get a grip guys…..who pays ur internet?? …if 29,000 people gave up their internet for one month then 29000 children in Ethiopia would be fed for six months…
happy browsing……before your next sumptious meal!!!!
John K,
Could you explain? Im not following
Throwing money at African poverty hasn’t worked.
Geldof got a knighthood for achieving next to nothing in real terms.
Unless we stop undercutting local food production and clothing production, indigenous production in Africa will fall to nothing, like it has elsewhere.
Think of all the indigenous Irish industries in manufacturing that have gone to the wall in the past twenty years.
We need to stop letting the principles Globalization set our path, because it has beggared us so that our economy is becoming dependent on Foreign Direct Investment.
And why did we need it on the first place?
Because local entrepreneurs didn’t set up business here to export all over the world.
There are a growing number of local businesses now and we need more.
Sarcastic????????………and fair play to you if you consider 5 miles as a “little walk”……..I shall remove myself then……
What a shower of spineless wonders the negative commentators on this forum all are.
Grab a hold of yourselves boys and girls and start selling products and services.
Tax the banks on microtransactions and over the counter trades and take back some of the millions they paid their executives so the state can pay its way.
And start doing something with your money instead of horading it away.
Otherwise you are indeed part of the problem, not the solution.
Every Euro you take out of circulation is adding to the problem.
have your say