Absolutely the no side of each referenda were right and we are about to head into another one with the same lies spin and threats being used to try to make us vote yes again

I personally think there are massive benefits to EU membership, including the Euro. With positives come negatives though and I suppose the question is (which none of us can answer) do the negatives outweigh the positives?

Its only in the last few years people have been angered at the EU and that’s because they are telling us how to run our finances – but they are bailing us out. Harsh, but probably not half as harsh as others.

Kevin yes there have been positives but also negatives. Regarding the EU they are not bailing us out. They are lending us money which attracts an annual interest charge. At the beginning of this process they set the interest rates at a high rate to ‘punish’ us that is not the actions of a friend.

There are positives and negatives, but this is not an EU for the people of Europe, this is an EU for banks and big business.

@Kerry

What would you do to a country that borrowed recklessly and overpaid itself, ignored warnings and now comes back asking for a bailout?

If you do not charge interest, then you would only encourage similar behavior from other countries.
What is the price for the irresponsible governance of our own economy, taxes, pay rates, property etc?
Surely if you give away free money to bail them out, then you are rewarding them, and making your own sensible citizens pay the bill…….which they will quickly resent.

Do you think europe is a magic place where money grows on trees? Europe cannot allow the entire european economy be distorted by the actions of a few small irresponsible countries, it also cannot pay our debts with the taxes of people who did not borrow recklessly

Does any of that make sense?

What would you do if you had to solve it? Considering more than your own country or narrow interests…..it is not easy, and europe are doing a good job so far.

Maybe next they will sort out our public sector.

@ HalloGoogleTracking. Did the country borrow recklessly? As far as I’m aware most of the big debt was run up by developers and banks. Sorry it was not me or my friends who ran up these massive debts. Do not make me personally responsible because of the actions or in actions (in the case of our politicians) of others. Do those outside of Ireland who lent to Irish banks not bear some responsibility as well? They are getting paid back all the money they shoveled at Irish banks and institutions.

Did I mention free money? What I said is that the EU set a penal rate to punish us and that is not the actions of a friend.

No tax payer from any other EU state has been asked to ‘pay our bills’ (I would say they are not ‘our’ bills any way) they have lent us money on which they will make a profit due to the interest rates. A fair amount of the said money lent is going straight out of Ireland again and into foreign banks and investment institutions. The only people who have told to take on this debt burden are the citizens of Ireland. Everyone else has been a pass on the actions of many some in Ireland and some in Europe.

So as the leaders of Europe watch on as jobless figures grow in every country, internal economies right across the Euro zone stagnate and shrink due to the fixation on austerity you claim the EU is doing a good job? Even the IMF is on record as saying austerity with out economic stimulation on the jobs front will not work. I’d agree with the IMF they have a lot more experience in this area compared to the ECB/EU.

If the fiscal compact goes through and say all of the EU countries adopted it the result would be that 24 out of current 27 member states would have to cut spending. Do you really think that is a good idea in the present climate?

@HelloGoogleTracking – lol, good one!! Maybe not on trees, but money is certainly pulled out of thin air that’s for sure.
That comment shows your lack of understanding of exactly what’s going on. Please research rehypothecation and the shadow banking system.
The zerohedge blog is a good place to start.

@Kerry
Firstly, excellent points, and I would agree with a lot of what you say.

Yes it was not the “country” i.e. the government i agree, but it is not as simple as developers and banks. The money was borrowed by the banks to fund the developers, who were borrowing to sell to the citizens. Yes the citizens needed somewhere to live, but it was not that simple. They believed in the property ladder and were making investments rather than purchasing homes. As a collective society, the majority of people bought into that, and ran up the huge debts of the “banks” which were yes developers and mortgage investors.

The governments job was to regulate this market and prevent and distorting exploitative property bubble, however they decided to stoke the fire……..there are people who disagreed and voted against them, also refused to buy into the hype of the property ladder and the endless talk about economic fundamentals etc….and it is those people paying the additional taxes as well……and more recently being asked to pay their neighbors mortgages !!

I expect you might agree with some of the above.

Yes i agree that times are going to continue to get worse, and europe could shatter as a result……i suspect more from resentment of foreign taxpayers at the stories in their papers about the ridiculous payments made in public sectors (I’m referring more to greece)…..lets hope though that it does not.

I understand your point about the penal rate, it is fair to look at it that way. However I think of it as a discouragement to other countries and encouragement to keep there books in order. I know….that isn’t fair on us……and I’m paying too.

But consider this, I expect those rates only to be show, without them the market would never allow our return. Also it will encourage us to balance our books faster….then once we show we can live within our tax collective means again, europe will institute a on time only debt forgiveness to boost the european economies, and reboot from this mess. But until that day, when our books are balanced…..the illusion of a penal rate is required (remember that all repayments we are making is coming from borrowed money like you mentioned)

Apologies though, I misinterpreted your original comment, you points are excellent and well made.

There are a lot of unfair euro baying comments being made here……which I have to take issue with.

From my perspective, we have benefited hugely from the EU, from structural grants to farm subsidies, infrastructure payments. All direct from taxpayers of other countries !!! mainly France and Germany

I can totally understand why they might be feeling a little annoyed at little countries who have taken so much….given nothing back……complain all the time and demonize their generosity.

It really is time we grew up, we behaved like crazed greedy idiots for years, borrowing far beyond our means…….(I hasten to add not me personally) but our government and 99% of our “highly educated people”

We should be careful now, before we squander any of the remaining good will to our childish country…….why do you expect taxpayers from other jurisdictions to bail out the mess of our own making??

Europe critized our policies, and advised against property bubbles, just to be ridiculed by our leaders…….
No-one forced us to borrow recklessly…..and we were advised against it……and we were given the freedom to make our own decisions……and we behaved like greedy children.

If I was a regular german citizen or french citizen and was aware of how much money I pured into Ireland, just to have us squander it, get arrogant and greedy….and have the nerve to blame europe. Then I would be of the strong opinion to kick the little stupid country out, and let them deal with the real world for once.

Sorry for the rant, but euro bashing really pisses me off, when it lacks all context understanding, and appreciation of history.

We made this mess ourselves, it is childish to blame those who lent us money, and time we take responsibility for our actions

Your right Hello…….we gave nothing in return for all those funds.Anyone in Killybegs will testify to this.

Build a bridge and get over your self hellohoogletracking!

I’v never heard that much bull since kenny ran his pre election campaign about a five point plan!
#FFS

Yes Norman,

It wasn’t just free cash we received but also sensible legislation, equal rights for women, anti discrimination, environmental protection, and yes protections against overfishing.

Perhaps you disagree with it all? What good is fish without a market to sell it in?
Kids want to have their cake and eat it too, everyone else knows there is always compromise.

Im proud to be European, and proud of the progress of Europe. And grateful to all contributing European countries for all we received. (we have always been a net recipient) imagine how you feel seeing billions of your hardearned taxes going abroad…..only for that country to screw everything up and blame you for it !!!

Hello….obvious to me nothing other than total agreement with your delusion is pointless.

Complete and utter nonsense, never read as much nonsense poor deluded fool ……

how about irish fishing rights. Since 1974 the total value of fish taken from Irish territorial waters amounted to €200 billion – so we have given nothing back?

Europe did flag out problems and the mefeiners we elected certainly have beaten us down repeatedly but the EU certainly has created its own set of problems that are set to tear the continent apart.

The problem with unworkable ideas is that they do not work, whether that be FF trying to bend the country to help their masters in the banks and developer donors or the E.C. trying to turn a continent in to one state, with a one size fits all policy, for radically different economies.

If the EU pointed out the flaws here, then there were countless people who pointed out the flaws in the Euro project who have been proven correct.

Fagan’s I have to agreed with you on this as we can see that governments across eurozone fall and this is only will get worst