We need your help now
Support from readers like you keeps The Journal open.
You are visiting us because we have something you value. Independent, unbiased news that tells the truth. Advertising revenue goes some way to support our mission, but this year it has not been enough.
If you've seen value in our reporting, please contribute what you can, so we can continue to produce accurate and meaningful journalism. For everyone who needs it.
Sign in. It’s quick, free and it’s up to you.
An account is an optional way to support the work we do. Find out more.
By continuing, you are indicating that you accept our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy.
NEW RESEARCH HAS shown that in cases where people would be better off financially claiming welfare than staying in employment or taking a job, 70 per cent of people choose to work.
The findings from social and economic think tank the ESRI confirm that work pays more than welfare for close to six out of seven unemployed people — even when costs like childcare and travel are taken into account.
The research is being released today, as the organisation hosts a pre-Budget conference in Dublin.
According to the ESRI:
Policy initiatives to improve the reward from work are worthwhile, but will have only a limited impact on overall unemployment.
More substantial reductions in unemployment will require a revival of international and national demand, and activation measures providing skills and training in areas where new jobs will arise.
Most people who receive Jobseeker payments are single and don’t have children, and work, even at minimum wage, pays more than welfare for these groups, the research found.
But for those with families, extra payments for children and in respect of a non-working spouse can mean that the net rewards from work are reduced.
However, the ESRI research concluded:
Even those who, on a “snapshot” basis, would be “better off on the dole” tend to choose work.
A number of reasons for this were given, including:
The ESRI’s Professor Tim Callan, who was one of the study’s authors, said that while policies that improved the reward from work were welcome, “they cannot be expected to have a major impact on overall unemployment”.
To embed this post, copy the code below on your site
Both myself and my wife work. She works 3 days a week ( by our choice so as to have time with the children) I work full time. Yesterday my wife enquired about getting the children into the local community creche for the days she is working. She was told if we wanted to get the reduced rate she’d have to sign on for the two days she not work. In effect the state is encouraging people to sign on the dole. Bloody joke.
And she would only get paid for one of those days then as they took 1 days pay off people on casual work in 2012 budget… total joke,,,
She probably wouldn’t get a penny for those two days, considering you both work and would likely exceed the earning requirements – it’s just an administrative thing to put her on the correct list. I only discovered recently that signing on and getting job seekers payments don’t always go hand in hand.
Actually she was told the reduced rate is only for those who are broke and on the dole. Your greed tantrum and bizarre twisting of this information just shows your mentality nothing else.
I think the problem is the crazy expense of childcare !
I have finally been offer a job. It pay €20K and its 100km away. Creche for my 7 month is €130 a week, after-school for my boy is €60 (creche for those 2 month holiday €100). Travel expenses over €100 a week, not counting repairs.
So should i take the job at €350 a week, or stay minding the kids without the dole ?
I really dont think the government is doing anything to make people in a position to work !
It’s time child care institutions’s fees be regulated.
As I can read some German, I have picked out a table where you can select your place of residence on a map or alternatively (click on left pointing arrow to go to alphabetical list), income and number of kids; the result section gives you the results (ranking of town/city in table, the ANNUAL fee for 1 x place and change of fees versus 2008). This is for a typical “kindergarten” place, so pre-school 3-6 or 7 year olds. It seems they open from 7.30 am to 4.30 pm on average.
For example parent/s with an annual income of TEUR 45 and two chilcren, a place for a kindergarten in Berlin would typically cost € 701. Yes folks, that’s for the year. In Dusseldorf, parents pay … wait for this … € 0.
I am french. My brother and sister in law both work and had they childcare for less then €10 a week. When the kid reach age 2, its completely free !!!
Now Ireland might not have the same money as France, but there is a huge gap here !
No..we sure do pay as much tax as them though…same old story..
Yeah I can see how that would be a barrier. I seriously wouldn’t mind my tax money going towards free childcare for working parents…the problem with that is eventually you will find some idiot who wants to extend that privilege to all.
You will always have people who don’t want to work and live of the state
I’m confused. The headline and article seem to contradict?
does the journal understand it’s own story?
It might just be too early for me but the headline seems to contradict the article!
Why don’t we just cut the dole after a period of say 52 weeks, to ‘encourage’ people to take up a job of some sort.
Social welfare should be a safety net, not a lifestyle choice!
Because that would punish people who are looking for jobs, but can’t get one. There are also vastly more unemployed people than there are jobs.
No Eliot it wouldn’t. Anyone who after a year who hasn’t found a job or taken up further education and training should be penalised.
There is a lot of snobbery over what jobs people would do and wouldn’t do. You shouldn’t be able to choose to stay on the dole because you feel like you’re too good for menial labour even if that’s what you’re only qualified to do.
Either get a job, up skill or get penalised.
Because conor the economy’s still in slump and anyone who understands basic economics can see the problems job availability not laziness.
Unemployment was only 4% during the boom, if people are offered work they’ll take it.
We do need to deal with the lifers, and those who are waiting for only their exact career to come up, but most are quite willing to work.
Mass lazyness didn’t break out in 2008, its not the problem
Then they should go into further education and training to up-skill for the new job market?
You either do something or get penalised which I think is completely fair enough.
My partner spent 2 and 1/2 years on dole and looked for jobs everyday for those 2 and 1/2 years. He sent off over 15 CV’s per day to every single job on the lists didnt matter what it was he just wanted to work, he got replies off 3 companies. 3!!!!! that’s it, not even a thanks for applying kiss my arse nothing off the rest. Now finally he has a job but he tried everyday and got no where so Conor it would’nt work for everyone not everyone on the dole is a scrounger.
Will you mind my kids for free while i go to college ?
I dont get any dole payment, and yet i am suppose to pay the full price for the creche.
I got offer a silly job bridge. I would have to pay for childcare while doing free work with (directly said to me) no chance of been kept !
Most big colleges usually do have a crèche in fact.
Danielle in your partners 2.5 years on the dole did he go into further education? And if so why not?
He sent out around 13,000 cvs ,either his cv was written by the cat or your telling porkies
Theres work for anyone who wants it , and because most people moan there no jobs , they haven’t got time to look.
As well as bankers and lawyers, the world also needs cleaners and janitors.
He was qualified in many areas Conor it was a job he needed not more training and there are other circumstances, peoples lives are not all straight forward it would be a perfect world if they were
No Sean practically ALL the companies just did’nt reply some were sent to the same company for the same jobs advertised week after week but no reply from them
ever been on the dole conor? i doubt you have judging by your comments. It is not a lifestyle choice for most it is a necessary evil we must put up with to keep our family fed and clothed. It’s not so easy to get off it and get trained in a new area.
I’m sure there is many factors I don’t know and I didn’t mean to cause offence. I just wanted to point out there is no way he sent out 13,000 cvs
And there is no reason why he couldn’t work as a cashier somewhere while looking for a job he is qualified at the same time.
Why didn’t he do a course in order to GET another job.
Do you think there maybe any correlation between his lack of qualifications and his lack of luck on the job hunt?
I still think that after a year of no luck, you either move into education and training to up skill or get penalised. There is no excuse for being on the dole for 2 years sending out CVs and not even trying to up skill.
It’s a complete and utter waste of taxpayers money.
Conor,
While I agree with you in principle, you need to be aware of the following situation, this is regarding people who lose their jobs, not regarding people who had never worked.
Once the stamps run out, an unemployed person needs to re-apply for dole payments.
While their application is being processed (can take up to 7-8 months, pending on where in the country you are) you are not even entitled to apply for CE Scheme jobs, which you can only apply for “when in receipt of welfare payments”. Not only would that leave you without any support – which you may need to attend an interview – but you cannot even apply for local low paid jobs.
A friend of mine was unemployed for 4 years, applied for every job accessible to her, went into the dole office every Wednesday, witnessed how people who had been invited for interviews by the Social did not show up and all the same she has never had an interview with the Social nor with FAS in four years. I should know as I used to give her a lift once a week.
Also, a lot of employers employ overly qualified people into low paid positions whilst making use of their qualified skills, e.g. lawyers working as receptionists or legal secretaries; qualified builders working as labourers and so on.
Trust me, no-one with a work ethic and a mortgage to pay would “chose” to stay on the dole.
The government will only pay for a certain amount of education in your life. If you have already received a degree then the government will not pay for any further education in a third level institute. The types of courses available means for a lot of people moving into education is prohibited by the state or a pointless exercise in downskilling. I’ve seen people with a PhD in computing being told they have to take a year long course in the ECDL. A waste of time and resources for the state, for the educator, any potential employer and the unemployed person.
…”Being in employment provides opportunities for wages to grow”…
ha ha ha my friend (retail) after serving 6 years ask for pay rise, answer: “your job is only worth 9 euro/hour”
if you don’t have pay rise guarantee by your contract you are not going to get any.
Its sad as being unemployed gives you more benefits than working minimum wage.
Is Government going to do something about that?
The only reason some people do this and I say some is because they’ve been trying for years to get a job so they think I’ll give it ago and maybe there will be something for me at the end of it,but as usual the government pulling the wool over our eyes with jobsbridge,if the job exists pay the person a proper days wage for a proper days work. They even have the balls to tell you the live register is going down because of it……..WRONG!!!!!! If you don’t pay tax it’s not a job,we need to wake up to these clowns in Dáil Éireann
Well then the 30% should be made fend for themselves… End of…
…But they’re “vulnerable”….
Vulnerable? I am vulnerable. I have to drive over an hour in one direction only to work every day. Sure I have far more chances to be killed each day. Think that would be the direct meaning of world vulnerable ha
The dole should be paid in proportion to how long you’ve contributed to the tax system.
The dole should be paid for 12 months max and then stop . You will be amazed how many people will manage to find a job .
You will be amazed as crime sky rockets when people have no other way to put food in the mouths of their families.
Yeah before the social welfare system cam into place we where a crime infested country , or maybe people took responsibility for there own life’s and made there own way in life .
Before social welfare came into existence our country was a backwards hole. People used to get sent to prison in Kilmanham to get a meal. We were the basket case of Europe up until at least the 60′s, if not longer. Your comments make no sense Tommy. Most people work to get out of the house, a few can’t be bothered, but we accept that because they are generally losers.
There are many modern rich countries in this world that provide social welfare for a limited period of time . It’s there to provide help for those that are temporarily out of work . 12 months is more then generous compare to what u get in many other countries . If ur unemployed and you want to work then you will find a job .
Yep. Plenty of modern rich countries. Wait, which countries? I can’t think of any off hand. Anyways, hopefully you’ll lose your job, not find one for 12 months and then I’ll see you eating half burgers from the bin at the back of McDonalds. That would make me howl like a dog. It is a dog eat dog world after all, who actually gives a doo doo about our fellow man! The Tea Party is 3,000 miles west, they’re always looking for members Tommy, they might not like though, because you’d be an immigrant. Try east, France have a party that have policies that you like. Although you’d be an immigrant there too. Hmmm. I guess your stuck in Ireland with all the lazy dole bludgers! I don’t claim myself, but my master does. He doesn’t do a tap, in fairness.
Where?—you must be drinking the same water that dear Enda imbibes, it cause delusions. To suggest that the 350,00 people signing on could find work if only they looked is juvenile.
Quick No one tell Joan Burton. If she finds out people actually want to work she will have to find another band wagon to hop on rather than ostracising the unemployed.
Title and content are at odds with each other. Make up your mind.
Love the cross roads analogy in the above pic. ‘Hmmmm do I choose a life on the dole or armed robbery?’
Work always ‘pays’ more than the dole….. and I did not need a PhD to figure that out….
Yes. We do. We are fools…..
Compliance costs with unemployment? There are far more with working – transport to and from work every day for one.
Even though the government pays me over €12000 a year state pension and free travel for the last four years,i dont use them because i also have savings, a private pension and 2 vehicles outside the door,as a self employed for over 30 tears i also opt to pay tax on my state pension because i choose to continue to work for social and other benifits over monetary gain,being healthy and fit also enables me to cycle 30km most days,my point being that people are living longer and healthier and if the retireing age is’nt extended,encouraging people to retire and become inactive will just pose further problems for the already creaking health system.
For the 3 of out 10 who want to live off society forever should have welfare replaced by workfare
To expencive to live here! Wages to low and cheap immigrant labour kept down wages while the cost of living stays the same! Whats a euro worth? Bring our Irish pound back!
How in God’s name does work pay less than welfare? That doesn’t make sense!
It does make sense so well. A working person gets nothing and pays for everything. A jobless person, on the contrary, has none of those expenses. Only childcare in some cases can be equal to a second minimum wage.
How in God’s name does work party less than welfare
Use precise geolocation data. Actively scan device characteristics for identification. Store and/or access information on a device. Personalised advertising and content, advertising and content measurement, audience research and services development.
These cookies are necessary for the website to function and cannot be switched off in our systems. They are usually only set in response to actions made by you which amount to a request for services, such as setting your privacy preferences, logging in or filling in forms. You can set your browser to block or alert you about these cookies, but some parts of the site will not then work.
These cookies may be set through our site by our advertising partners. They may be used by those companies to build a profile of your interests and show you relevant adverts on other sites. They do not store directly personal information, but are based on uniquely identifying your browser and internet device. If you do not allow these cookies, you will experience less targeted advertising.
These cookies enable the website to provide enhanced functionality and personalisation. They may be set by us or by third party providers whose services we have added to our pages. If you do not allow these cookies then these services may not function properly.
These cookies allow us to count visits and traffic sources so we can measure and improve the performance of our site. They help us to know which pages are the most and least popular and see how visitors move around the site. All information these cookies collect is aggregated and therefore anonymous. If you do not allow these cookies we will not be able to monitor our performance.
Cookies, device or similar online identifiers (e.g. login-based identifiers, randomly assigned identifiers, network based identifiers) together with other information (e.g. browser type and information, language, screen size, supported technologies etc.) can be stored or read on your device to recognise it each time it connects to an app or to a website, for one or several of the purposes presented here.
Advertising presented to you on this service can be based on limited data, such as the website or app you are using, your non-precise location, your device type or which content you are (or have been) interacting with (for example, to limit the number of times an ad is presented to you).
Information about your activity on this service (such as forms you submit, content you look at) can be stored and combined with other information about you (for example, information from your previous activity on this service and other websites or apps) or similar users. This is then used to build or improve a profile about you (that might include possible interests and personal aspects). Your profile can be used (also later) to present advertising that appears more relevant based on your possible interests by this and other entities.
Advertising presented to you on this service can be based on your advertising profiles, which can reflect your activity on this service or other websites or apps (like the forms you submit, content you look at), possible interests and personal aspects.
Information about your activity on this service (for instance, forms you submit, non-advertising content you look at) can be stored and combined with other information about you (such as your previous activity on this service or other websites or apps) or similar users. This is then used to build or improve a profile about you (which might for example include possible interests and personal aspects). Your profile can be used (also later) to present content that appears more relevant based on your possible interests, such as by adapting the order in which content is shown to you, so that it is even easier for you to find content that matches your interests.
Content presented to you on this service can be based on your content personalisation profiles, which can reflect your activity on this or other services (for instance, the forms you submit, content you look at), possible interests and personal aspects. This can for example be used to adapt the order in which content is shown to you, so that it is even easier for you to find (non-advertising) content that matches your interests.
Information regarding which advertising is presented to you and how you interact with it can be used to determine how well an advert has worked for you or other users and whether the goals of the advertising were reached. For instance, whether you saw an ad, whether you clicked on it, whether it led you to buy a product or visit a website, etc. This is very helpful to understand the relevance of advertising campaigns.
Information regarding which content is presented to you and how you interact with it can be used to determine whether the (non-advertising) content e.g. reached its intended audience and matched your interests. For instance, whether you read an article, watch a video, listen to a podcast or look at a product description, how long you spent on this service and the web pages you visit etc. This is very helpful to understand the relevance of (non-advertising) content that is shown to you.
Reports can be generated based on the combination of data sets (like user profiles, statistics, market research, analytics data) regarding your interactions and those of other users with advertising or (non-advertising) content to identify common characteristics (for instance, to determine which target audiences are more receptive to an ad campaign or to certain contents).
Information about your activity on this service, such as your interaction with ads or content, can be very helpful to improve products and services and to build new products and services based on user interactions, the type of audience, etc. This specific purpose does not include the development or improvement of user profiles and identifiers.
Content presented to you on this service can be based on limited data, such as the website or app you are using, your non-precise location, your device type, or which content you are (or have been) interacting with (for example, to limit the number of times a video or an article is presented to you).
With your acceptance, your precise location (within a radius of less than 500 metres) may be used in support of the purposes explained in this notice.
With your acceptance, certain characteristics specific to your device might be requested and used to distinguish it from other devices (such as the installed fonts or plugins, the resolution of your screen) in support of the purposes explained in this notice.
Your data can be used to monitor for and prevent unusual and possibly fraudulent activity (for example, regarding advertising, ad clicks by bots), and ensure systems and processes work properly and securely. It can also be used to correct any problems you, the publisher or the advertiser may encounter in the delivery of content and ads and in your interaction with them.
Certain information (like an IP address or device capabilities) is used to ensure the technical compatibility of the content or advertising, and to facilitate the transmission of the content or ad to your device.
Information about your activity on this service may be matched and combined with other information relating to you and originating from various sources (for instance your activity on a separate online service, your use of a loyalty card in-store, or your answers to a survey), in support of the purposes explained in this notice.
In support of the purposes explained in this notice, your device might be considered as likely linked to other devices that belong to you or your household (for instance because you are logged in to the same service on both your phone and your computer, or because you may use the same Internet connection on both devices).
Your device might be distinguished from other devices based on information it automatically sends when accessing the Internet (for instance, the IP address of your Internet connection or the type of browser you are using) in support of the purposes exposed in this notice.
The choices you make regarding the purposes and entities listed in this notice are saved and made available to those entities in the form of digital signals (such as a string of characters). This is necessary in order to enable both this service and those entities to respect such choices.
have your say