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THE ESRI SAYS that the impression that people are better off on the dole is mistaken.
A new report from the organisation says that only about 3 per cent of people earn more on social welfare than they would in employment.
Eight out of ten unemployed people would increase their income by at least 50 per cent if they were to find a job, while six out of ten would more than double their income if they obtained a job, according to the ESRI.
The report is based on analysis of the ESRI’s tax-benefit model which is based on a nationally representative sample of real people.
The ESRI says that “selective examples” have been used to support the argument that higher taxes and a range of welfare payments mean that people are financially better off being unemployed. However, it said that those examples can be misleading as they fail to take account of the range of factors affecting welfare payments and potential earnings from employment.
The researchers on the Taxes, Welfare and Work Incentives report say that measures taken between 2008 and 2011 have held a “significant financial incentive to work” for most unemployed people and that just 13 per cent of people on Jobseeker Assistance of Benefit receive a rent or mortgage supplement.
Increased taxes and cuts to tax credits since 2000 mean that about one in six workers face a marginal effective tax rate which is 10 percentage points higher than they did in 2000, the ESRI says.
Speaking at the ESRI’s Budget Perspectives conference in Dublin today, ESRI research professor Tim Callan suggested the government should look into alternative tax-raising measures, such as a property value tax, than income-related taxes:
Income-related taxes such as the Universal Social Charge have done most of the heavy lifting in raising revenue. Further tax policy needs to look at taxes which are less directly linked to income, but still have regard to ability to pay. A property value tax could be designed to meet this criterion.
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This just makes sense . ! What is the problem in doing this ?
Human rights, right to privacy, data protection etc etc.
…and what about the human rights of future victims Sean? Or are you willing to sacrifice someone , young /old , man / woman, boy / girl, before people can protect themselves ?
I know that I would much rather know who the convicted sex offenders are in the area where I live . Remember there are lots of unknown sex offenders out there too. But Sean Beag if you can live with that risk , you are in the minority.
What about the rights of the victims? They weren’t considered. The offender has given up their rights when they violated someone elses.
You asked what the problem was and i told you so you attacked me. Don’t ask a question of you don’t want the answer.
Personally I’d rather be castrated but that’s beside the point.
Sean Beag
who attacked you ? report them !
Sean Beag
Victims rights etc
National ID system needed now for all inhabitants , simple system and it works
And what about the murders the burglars the drug dealers , car thieves etc etc etc. its amazing they can come out of prison and continue to commit crime and never have any further consequences. Where is there register
Yes you are right of course . But then you have ”do gooders” coming out with the usual ould trot of human rights and data protection !
The irony of that statement when you probably used the same excuse against the household charge.
We should be looking more at longer sentancing and psychological examinations for all sex offendors. We shouldn’t have to keep track of them because they shouldn’t be released if they are still a danger.
Sean Beag
I believe you are on the wrong thread to discuss the HHC . I will of course discuss the success of the campaign on the appropriate thread any time . However this thread is about registering sex offenders in their local areas ….
Yeah I agree with Sean, prison is not about doing a certain amount of years in a cell. It’s about rehabilitation, and if they’re not ready to be integrated back into society they shouldn’t be let out. Simply keeping track of them more and more is the sign of a failed system, as there shouldn’t be a need to track them if they were safe enough to let out.
The thing is , sex offenders are never a danger while they are locked up , …. I agree Keep them locked up , but Where does that leave Sean and his ”Human rights, right to privacy, data protection etc etc” You can not have it every way ! Sex offenders are sentenced by a judge in court and that is usually the end of it after appeals etc is heard , It is not on a continuing assessment , So when a sex offender is releases after the legal incarceration then they should of course be monitored , even tagged in my opinion.
Sorry susie, i wasn’t aware your core principals changed depending on the subject matter.
Perhaps you should read my first post with a hint of sarcasm and you might understand a bit better where i am coming from. I think people forefeit their rights when they commit crimes. The courts of human rights and the law disagrees with me. You appear to agree with me but just don’t know it.
Sean Beag
your apology is accepted, I do not see sex offence as being humorous . So I would not have read your comment with a hint of sarcasm or humor . My core values remain as they always have ….as mine ! I have to go now but will catch up with you later :)
@Susie
By your logic, should we not then monitor everyone who commits a violent crime? As they’re a danger too? I think the prison system is flawed if you have any sort of a register for people after they leave. Prisons should only be there to keep society safe and rehabilitate in mates. It is not a slap on the wrist but an attempt to correct the individual so he may re-enter society.
There is no win win here, sex offenders are never cured/rehabilitated, they arent even forced to be rehabilitated,look at larry murphy for example. we good go extreme, castrate the offender,abuse,beat up,torture but you’d have human rights issues, pkus theres the debate about abusers are victims of abuse themselves? Whats the appropriate sentence for abusers? With or without rehabilitation? I do believe sex offenders,at present should be fixed to sign on in one district. Sexual crime is a devastating offence.
Spelling awful tofau
Robert Kelly ,
Prisons will never rehabilitate criminals , they may get lucky and ”cure” one or two depending on the individuals nature, but they will never rehabilitate sex offenders . It is not possible. The sentences should be reviewed too , life for life etc., but more community services for non violent crime and fines.Maybe that is what you would wish prison to be but it is not the case.
Diarmaid .
Prison is the punishment . It is not for punishment !
@Susie
If they never rehabilitate criminals why do we punish them? The philosophy of crime and punishment is that there is free will, and that you have a choice to rob, kill or rape. If you don’t have free will, then the whole notion of justice disappears and punishing them for who they are is wrong. It’s simply not their fault for doing what they do as a result. So if we don’t try to “fix” them, then we’re just as guilty for letting them out.
As for an eye for an eye or life for life I don’t believe anyone has the right to take another life. It’s only ever justfied in self defence (or perhaps I’m reading it wrong when you said “life for life” and you mean time).
This same paedo hysteria kicked off in Britain in the 90s, got to protect the children, got to protect the children, they’re everywhere I tell you. It became absolutely ridiculous, paranoia whipped up by the Daily Mail and News of the World, to the point where the baying mob ran a female pediatrician out of her home. People need to be sensible about this and learn from the mistakes of others – if that is possible in this country.
There is no proposal for the register to be open to the public. The sex offenders register does not only register paediphiles but all offenders.
Here is a quote from Shatters speech at the Ard Fheis.
“An important part of my brief is that, together with Minister of State Kathleen Lynch, we actively ensure that, as a State, we treat all people equally and with respect; that no individual suffers discrimination” . The hypocrisy of this made me gag
I wonder Susie would you feel the same way if one of your son’s was on the register knowing that they are gonna be harrased possibly even assaulted or worse.
I can’t speak for suzie but if my child’s name ended up on a sex offenders register then I would think that it serves him/her bloody right and if they violated someones rights then they need to accept responsibility for their actions. I would also be severely disappointed in myself as a parent and would ask myself the painful and predictable question of where I went wrong. As far as I can see the gardai are not proposing that the register is public (although I think it would be no harm if it was) but they are proposing that the offenders have to give more details on their identity and would have to sign on locally, I cannot see the problem with either of these proposals.
Taken from citizens info website. The public DO NOT have access to the sex offenders register.
Can I find out if a sex offender lives in my area?
No. The details held by the Gardaí in relation to those persons guilty of sex offences and who are subject to the requirements of the Sex Offenders Act 2001 are not subject to freedom of information
legislation. You are not entitled, therefore, to apply under the Freedom of Information Acts to find out details of sex offenders living in your area.
Under the Data Protection Acts, 1988-2003 you are entitled to request information held about yourself on computer or in manual or paper files. This includes information held by the Gardaí (with a number of exceptions). Under the data protection legislation, however, the only person entitled to request this information held about you is yourself. It is not possible for you to make such a request in respect of another person. Further information on Data Protection in Ireland is available here
.
hasnooneasked ,
Can you not use the reply button to address a question to me .
I will tell you this . If any of my childrens names ended up on a serx offenders register open or closed to the public ,I would disown them . I love my children like my own heart beat , but they know and will continue to know that I would not accept any type of illegal or immoral or anti social behavior . When they were growing up they knew not to do anything wrong , not just in case they were caught , but just not to do it. Full stop.
I treated my children like ordinary decent people and guess what they grew up into ordinary decent people and they had boundaries too. SO I do not worry about stuff that I know that we have discussed.
How about yourself hasnooneasked ? How would you react if your kids ended up on a sex offenders register?
@Dr Diarmuid Donoghue
Where exactly did you get your facts that they cant be rehabilitated have you got proof to back it up? Or are you typical of people who believe everything they read in the Tabloids? As for Human Rights they are there for a reason to stop Gov from over stepping the mark. You don’t just loose your rights as a person just because you commit a crime.
It’s not a fact but there are some who believe peadophilia is like any sexual orientation and that it’s not something that can be cured. Of course not everyone who sexually abuses a child could is a peadophile, they are sometimes people who will prey on anyone vulnerable.
Il provide quotes, links later but no I dont believe the media, csi miami and svu, generally, is where I get my info… ;-)
@hasnooneasked im curious, what would be your solution, keeping in mind human rights and keeping our government in line. You’ve argued the rights end – granted, we get it, I personally agree with the human aspect of your point, but what would you recommend. Case study. A male rapes a woman then tries to strangle her only to be interupted and scared off. Eventually gets caught, imprisoned, and released after ten years, not once apologising for the attempted murder, or even going through rehabilitation… Show compassion? Whats your take – no links, quotes needed, just your honest opinion. Shoot from the hip kid
Maybe I am nuts but surely some sex offenders don’t want to offend again, everything that should be done to prevent another violent crime should be. If someone who really does want to stay on the straight and narrow, had to present themselves to a parole office every week to discuss how they are doing it would surely help in some cases. For those that are intent on re-offending then watching them like a hawk seems like the only way forward for me, I understand the human rights aspect for it’s for the own good as well as potential victims.
Tighter restrictions??? What a joke!! With the likes of Larry Murphy allowed out after ten years to run amok in Europe, and that other animal Connor Downey in cork! They have no human rights!!if it was the us these guys would die in prison and deservedly so. Scandalous!!!
@Dr Diarmuid Donoghue
I do agree with you on your point about a person not showing remorse or have not gone through therapy that person should be supervised. But if a person has gone through therapy and has done everything in their power to help themselves well than they should be given every opportunity to live as law abiding citizens. Everything should be done to help first time offenders to make sure that they don’t re-offend.
Every person is different and every attitude is different but everything should be done to help them reintegrate into society. If you continue to restrict and restrict eventually it is going to explode. My other point is why does this only apply to Sex Offenders when there are other crimes being committed out there. The Law is supposed to treat us all as equals.
I agree, but uh its too pc your comments, makes me sick. I came across some interesting articles regarding pedophilia and sex crimes, although it does not clearly state that they can not be “cured” it does lead to some interesting debate on how the mind works and treatments for sex offenders. If I come across anything definitive il post – or pass it on via twitter. hmm monitor all kinds of criminals, and not just sex offenders, I cant imagine the cost/resources that would go into that setup so it is not possible. Tag them?? Im off to bed, oh and to reply to a comment, scroll up till you see the original comment. Like your comments, underneath is reply button,followed by responses, if you want respond to a reply, go back up to the original comment and reply. It keeps conversations neat. Night
@ Susie Chester
Sorry Susie there was no reply button underneath you. Honest answer they are my children and I would not abandon them. You are not just a parent for all the good times you are a parent for life no matter what happens. Good or Bad. I could not let them feel alone. You may raise them up in a good way but things happen and people make the wrong decision and remember this anyone can be on the register even you. But if you continue to demonize a person well why should they bother to live a law abiding life.
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