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UNIONS AT ESB have called on management to confirm whether there are any plans to put workers on ‘protective notice’ as the dispute over the company’s pension scheme continues.
It follows a statement yesterday from employers’ group Ibec that the threatened industrial action could lead to “thousands of workers being put on protective notice and losing income in the run up to Christmas”.
Notice of industrial action was served on management yesterday, and the action is due to begin on 16 December. Customers have been told to expect power outages as a result.
Ibec head of industrial relations Maeve McElwee, who is advising companies on how to manage any disruption, said in a statement yesterday that employers “who have reserved the right to place employees on unpaid lay-off or short-time working in their contracts of employment may utilise this clause”.
“Otherwise, agreement should be sought from the employees to place them on these forms of temporary work patterns.
“There may be a requirement to redeploy staff from one part of the business to another to maintain core business operations, where certain sites or stores may still be able to operate.
In a letter sent to management, which was also released to the media this morning, ESB Union Group Secretary Brendan Ogle asks the company’s management to confirm that “ESB has no plans to put its workers on protective notice”.
He warns: “If you have it is important unions are aware, and can consider this in our current, already difficult dialogue”.
An ESB spokesperson told TheJournal.ie they had “no comment to make” on the issue.
Dispute
The row centres on a €1.6 billion deficit in the semi-state company’s pension scheme. Workers believe that the ESB has breached a 2010 agreement.
Following the conclusion of talks on Thursday, both sides said significant differences still remained between the parties.
No intervention from a third party – such as the Labour Relations Commission – has been planned as yet.
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Some of the best pay and conditions and they want more. Greedy greedy
Four candles please……
Would you agree to your pension that you had paid into in good faith for over 30 years being decimated. Not greed just worried about their old age
No les we want our Db scheme defined as a DB scheme not a DC scheme that’s all.
Maggie, believe it or not it’s happened to most of the country, why should the unproductive over paid staff in ESB be any different? I will answer that one for you, they can try to hold the whole country to ransom, greedy, greedy, greedy.
To ALL the ESB workers coming here to plead that they are being hard done by you can go to arbitration and force the hand of the ‘Board’ without making the rest of us suffer.
I think deep down Aunty, what you’re really upset about would be the slow down on the ESB burning coal and fossil fuels rather than anything else :)
That’s what’s really irking you.
Its not greed part of their pay and conditions was a defined benefit pension….
Over 1 billion shortage in the pension will result in workers not receiving their full pension because of the employers not investing in the pension over the years. The question should be is what did the employers do with the money over the years. When you see that certain individuals in management are earning over €330, 000 in one given year!!
Fork handles…
John, given the average salary is over 65k I would have thought senior management would have been on a lot more than 330k, someone in the company must be overpaid, hmmm I wonder who?
Michael
It’s obtaining monies with menaces! This Union action is being taken without an updated valuation being carried out on the ESB Pension Fund. A leading economist yesterday suggested that the Fund may actually be in surplus and thus Brendan Ogle simply doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
If a strike occurs and one person dies from hypothermia or blood poisoning due to their dialysis machine being without power these people must be charged with manslaughter.
Closing down Irish Manufacturing in the midst of the worst recession in the history of the State is mindless and ignorant thuggery. The Government must receive workers support in the immediate banning of such strikes which are damaging to the National Interest.
The average salary is high, it should however be remembered that workers of the company may be “on call” after hours, weekends and at holidays because of the unpredictability of emergencies.
Ogle is a trouble making troll that should be sent on a one way ticket to Siberia.
Cuba , Mark,he loves Cuba.
Michael,Pat O’Doherty has a salary of €318,000 31% above the governments pay cap for semi state CEO’s. Although this is a drop from the €500,000 salary of Padraigh McManus which was reduced down to that in 2009 from €750,000. That’s basic without bonuses or benefits apart from his company car.
How are ESB staff unproductive?
Up still now it seems like a pretty good service to me
No need for candles,if you are a farmer,camper/caravaner,selfemployed,or just need some extra mobile power in emergency,a portable generator either petrol or diesel,can supply most of your energy needs,it can even be connected safely to a transfer switch at the house mains.
Evil evil people
Michael, the average of 65000 euros is arrived at by including management grades, who are on huge money.
Leslie Alan Rock. your talking bull again the TDs and Senators are better paid than the ESB workers.
@ Luke
I ♥ Moneypoint
Brendan, there must be thousands of senior managers on hundreds of grand to push the average that high! Mind you in a monopoly like the ESB, there probably is.
The average used is an income distribution which takes no account of the actual numbers in each grade. This is an old media ploy. It was used against other groups in the 0ast to suggest higher average wages than the majority actually had.
4 Hail Marys and an our father will cure it !
A half billion euro annual salary to 7000 people providing electricity to a tiny population like Ireland, charging a massive premium above electricity rates in other countries?
The job could be done well by less than 2000 people each receiving 65% of the salary, perks and pension they currently get – if we were to match how other countries run their power supply.
How to you assess productivity? If you went in to McDonalds and 1,000 people made your hamburger, each getting paid 45k a year, is it productive if you receive your hamburger?
Given how abnormally expensive electricity is in captive market that is Ireland these days, I wonder does the cheap electricity that ESB staff get appear on their tax return as a BIK?
I told you before Owen, it’s ‘Fork handles please’! BTW, ‘ave you got any ‘oes?
Unfortunately that system doesn’t work….look at waterford crystal workers going through the courts here and in Europe over the years. Won all their cases…. 4 pensionable workers have died during that period and still they have not received their full pension entitlements
Of course they want more,20 years of benchmarking and bertie have made them spoilt brats,who,ll throw a tantrum the first time a grown up says no,no more money for sweets!privatise the esb,wouldnt be long putting manners on the brats,and pack ogle off to work on a collective farm in cuba,live out his proletarian wet dream to his hearts content.
@ Henry Glader, the pussy cat! Politicians are better paid, and work 6 months of the year at most!
So it’s okay for babies and elderly people to go without heat in the middle of winter. It’s okay not being able to feed your family cause of no power. It’s okay for businesses to lose out and their employees end up either out of pocket or worse, having to be let go. This is an employer /employee problem and shouldn’t be hoisted onto the Joe public.
The same could be said of teacher strikes, nurses strikes, NCHD strikes, airline strikes, bus strikes, blue flu, and kinds of others. That’s not how it works unfortunately.
No its not the same. Nurses go on strike and they ensure the most vulnerable are protected. Teachers go on strike is not life threatening to anyone. When blue flu occurred there was a skeleton force available. Esb cutting power because of greed is unforgivable.
The Esb also have a list of the most vulnerable and I can recount many examples of them going above and beyond the call of duty to help those very same people.
Sorry not the same. Not everybody is affected by public transport or nurses strikes. However every single person is affected by electricity strikes. Everybody.
Nuala, trying to ensure that you are going to have what you contracted for and paid into all your working life is not greed but seeking for justice. Why don’t you direct your ore towards ESB management who have gone back on a commitment only signed off on in 2010.
Im sure your family can survive the duration of a well notified two hour blackout at 3am on a Sunday morning…
Nuala
Remember when there was talk of a nurses/midwives, teachers strike over the Haddington Road agreement? The general public reacted in the same way as they are reacting now up in arms and vilifying us.
Strike action is not easy it’s not an easy decision to make to strike and having been there twice in ’99 & ’09 I wouldn’t envy the ESB workers. Let’s hope it’s resolved before they reach the gates.
@Tom – so if they’re not at 3am can we call you a tit?
You want to go on strike and deny the public a vital service then protective notice is good enough for you
I’ll bet burglars are looking forward to this. No house alarms, no phones, old people at home alone in the dark…
Surely IBEC is referring to those companies which will be hit by power cuts and not the ESB?
That’s doesn’t matter to the unions they are just spouting venom and making it up as they go along- that’s what unions do
Like you Kenny boy making shit up everyday like a piss poor troll does
You are a nasty piece of work and I wish you nothing but misery…. happy Christmas from all at ESB
Is the ibec person having a laugh, pretending that their members give staff notice of anything, zero hour contracts and consult with staff before moving them.
She is taking the p**s.
About time that workers in a sector of Irish industry faced down dictatorial employers and this rotten government.
The running down of the pension fund and the good conditions it gives to the workers who contributed to it for the past few decades is just a precursor to the ESB being sold off to private interests.
As can be seen, the employers and their media cheerleaders are going all out to demonize the workers and threatening to punish other ordinary workers in a bid to crush the brave stance being taken by ESB workers in declaring that enough is enough.
I hope the ESB workers lay down a line in the sand for the future.
Only employers don’t run the pension fund.
sounds like a thinly veiled threat of a lockout to me
@Brian – don’t let the facts get in the way of a good rant……
It’s time for a lockout folks oh please teach them a lesson
true but they do dip into them
What facts are wrong?
Cut off the power to those who you have the problem with leave the rest of us out of your dispute, I shall be sending a bill to the ESB for any losses I incur through outages and so should everybody else.
Martin, why not send it to the unions? They’re the ones going on strike, not the company.
That would be helpful to the workers Martin the idea behind a strike is to hurt company profits, send letters of complaint to ESB head office
Everyone switch power supply to other companies. They can still control the power I know but watch their profits drop then if all their customers go elsewhere.
that’s the problem funnyman …. to hurt company profits …. in other words take from the exchequer/government/people. The fund is in deficit – time to get off the pedestal – you nor we can afford your pension
You are not paying attention gerbreen our pension fund will be in the green come 2018, it comes down to basic paperwork on the issue. Come back when you understand or follow what’s going on.
I am paying attention … and 16% of your pension via the 3rd highest energy prices in Europe.
Ger you pay for a service, the electricity you use, not the pension. If you have a problem with the cost take it up with the regulator he’s the one who sets the price not me… And by the way you would not tell anybody in any other profession how to spend the money you have paid them for their service so don’t think you have the right yo do it here. You’re going on like a scolded child.
The pension costs are not factored into unit cost so?
No cost of production and profit margin are, of course a portion of the the profit margin has to go into the pension pot that’s how it works but like I said you would not tell any other service provider how to spend their profit. Why don’t you go to the pub and tell the pub owner he’s not allowed to put any of the profit he makes from the pints you drink into a pension, because according to people like you no body should dare to have or try to protect theirs….look we could argue all night about this but you can’t deny if you were in my position you would defend your right to a pension, as for the cost of electricity the best thing for you to do is ignore the scam that is the false break up of monopoly in the supply end and reduce your usage. Eg replace all light fittings with LED replacements, use solar panels for water hearing and sure if ye can start using the back boiler again.
Agree on usage points. Taxpayer doesn’t own the pub though. Good night and good luck with your battle!
The idea of a strike is to hurt company profits you say, and who do you think owns the power company,yea right first time,the people of this country,this is typical union screwball logic.
Nuala,
Incorrect information I’m afraid… ESB networks still get a portion of the bill for the maintenance, repair and service.
So I’m afraid profits won’t be going anywhere…
We pay high prices for electricity, now we’re being left in the Dark and are these guys not paid enough as it is?
Once again the people of this country punishing each other for the governments mess. The ESB do not have the right to strike when it impacts so negatively on every single person in the country, and for that matter people outside the country who may like to contact someone here. But whats really important is, should this strike go ahead, it will effect, schools, colleges, hospitals, day-care centres, hospices, every single business in the country. Some may have back up generators, most however do not. There will literally be millions and millions of euro worth of frozen and refrigerated stock lost, and as a result business’ will close, people will lose their jobs. YOU could lose your job over this farcical strike. Elderly, sick and infirm people face the prospect of dying in their own homes without power. And whey the hell do the ESB have a monopoly on the power supply in this country, is that not illegal. Of course the ESB workers are entitled to their pension, but taking the whole country hostage is not the way to go about it. And as for people who think it will be a ‘bit of craic’ if the power goes. please stop commenting because you clearly do not have a brain to comprehend the gravity of a situation like this. This attitude of I’ll be alright so let them at it makes me vomit. Idiots, stop and think before spew your stupidity all over the rest of us. All workers have rights and the right to defend those rights, however when your job involves supplying an essential commodity to roughly 4 million people then you need to examine the ethics of deciding to strike. The ESB, and I’m blaming the top dogs here, will quite literally be responsible for plunging this country further back into economic desparity and potentially the deaths of countless people. Now if you cannot see that and still think the ESB workers should strike……. then really you need to examine yourself as a human being and wake up, I have never seen such ignorance as that coming from those who support this idea of power-cuts by way of obtaining what is in the first place and overblown pension. By all means ESB workers should take some form of industrial action but depriving the whole country of electricity is not only ridiculous but actually evil in the extreme. Again I’m blaming the bosses here. How about this, every person who loses power should sue the ESB for being denied a basic, essential and life preserving commodity.
Well said homer.
I don’t blame the bosses, I blame the Union. Half the ESB staff are a total surplus to what is actually required to press a button in an automated powerstation these days or watch a monitor screen showing network activity.
They’ve been drinking their own bathwater too long. NOBODY is indispensible, no matter how cast-iron you think your public sector cushy number is. Ogle is going to cost ESB staff a lot more than they are blackmailing the people of the country for.
What I don’t understand about this is that I would have thought that resolving a pension issue would be deemed an internal organisational matter involving mgmt, pension board and other interested parties; and as such it should not be taken out on the public or end user of the service.
I agree that the pensions they had no choice about signing up to all those years ago should be honoured, but I disagree that we are the ones that are being used as the ‘bargaining tool’.
Oh so it’s fine for other workers to be put on protective notice because of THEIR strike but not the ESB workers . God forbid!
Ogle clearly not concerned about anyone else other than ESB workers being put on protective notice…
” No house alarms, no phones, old people at home alone in the dark…”
That’s happening already.
This is another example of management dumping on staff, they moved that money to pump up the value of the company to line their own fat pockets and have their hands up the holes of the media and seekers of scraps off the top table blackening the workers names, it’s absolutely shite that we might have to sit in the dark but it’s time someone stood up to the 1%
Yea,but either ways its the taxpayers as usual who will still end up getting screwed,right.
We all would have solidarity with the ESB workers if this LOON Ogle wasn’t the face of this issue. The man is a liability and is the reason that the ESB workers are ensuring they will be as vilified and hated as the previous FF government. As it stands, the ESB workers ain’t covering themselves in glory, their supporters may disagree with me.
Time for a lock out folks teach these horrible people a lesson. Vile sub humans
Bring in the army to man the E.S.B services. I agree that the workers are entitled to push the fat cats but why should the ordinary person have to suffer so that the workers get their pound of flesh.
That’s what strikes are all about unfortunately. The people on strike in the run up to xmas won’t get paid either.
The Army the answer to all our problems they must be the most multi skilled workforce in the world :) they can replace Gaurds, prison officers, fire fighters, paramedics and now ESB workers what next? ;)
I support the ESB why should they be shafted and the politician helping therm selfs to big pensions and supporting their buddies in CRC with their top ups.Let them bring this lot down.
Won’t be long be now before we can tell what areas are having an outage by which posters are missing off the Journal.
I bought a genny 2 years ago Luke as I could not get the interweb to work on me stove :-) so I will keep the flag flying against skangers and other riff-raff
These union reps are self serving a…….s who care nothing for the public or indeed their only members
Generators aren’t cheap Aunty. I’ve been keeping an eye on the prices of them last few weeks to see if the prices would spike, but they don’t seem to have.
You’d pay E700 or E800 for a halfway decent one.
Sure €700 or €800 is only a day or twos work for an ESB employee..;-)
2 weeks for most of the ones I know in ESWB Pablo, but no one wants to believe that bit. Doesn’t change the fact it’s true though.
€200 or so in Lidl or was it aldi for a nice handy 2.8kW which copes with emergency use. I have a 2 litre diesel which I plan:-) to use ina CHP unit as done here http://thegreenlivingforum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=494 many farfmers run alternators from a tractor PTO so there’s plenty of scope to go off-grid. Maybe for another day, we must stay on topic or get red thumbed :-)
Maybe when Merkle is finished meddling in Ukraine she will get these muppets around the negotiating table and bang their heads together? Enda seems to have abdicated…. I think he’s turning Japanese
Pat Rabbite – no sign of him either.
It’s time you all spoke to your Dad’s to ask what to do when a strike takes place. It’s been a while but it’s high time the workers in this country bared their teeth and took back some control from the bankers, politicians and CEO’s
They would be nothing without the workers who help line their pockets.
Why ask our dad’s Maurice?
Just passed Leinster house and I see big trucks parked at the side, looks like fold up beds are going into the building.
I support the ESB workers.We have very mild weather at the moment but what about other years were we had storms and cables torn down with wind and ESB worker out in horrendous weather all over the country to get homes and businesses back up.To read most of the posts here is disgraceful These workers get paid to do a job just like most workers do it is a wage.The issue with the pensions Is very serious and as Management have failed to enter into talks is the disgrace after all the workers have paid into through a group scheme via their wages stopped at source and when their employment starts has no option but to join the pension scheme most have no problem with the pension scheme at all because it is for their retirement, to secure their old age Why is there so much hatred out there against them after all we the workers of Ireland are all in the same boat.Are yea all saying that we are not entitled to secure our future and old age? Are yea saying that a Government are entitled to take our rights away while they take all from us to get their (politicians) pensions and Remember folks Politicians have secured their own pensions from our State just after 3 years of being in office while the rest of us have to work 40 plus years before we can.Now who is screwing who Yes The legislators are screwing us and they have also started the attack on the workers by conquer and divide.Well done folks you have fallen for it so allowed it to happen well done
The retailers will be loving this, candles rrp to increase by 100% I guarantee if this strike goes ahead
Thomas. What a remarkably well thought observation
its about time people woke up to the fact that employers are closing down pension funds and the government are robbing them with their levy we had aer lingus,m+s esb independent newspapers waterford crystal all running at a deficit…the only people guaranteed a pension are sitting in the dail and gain their pension in their 50s along with whatever other pension they may have as a teacher or minister etc etc….there wont be any strike and any body who has been involved in negotiations know there will not be a stsrike…i do get a pain listing to fking politicians going on about how we will look around the world and our reputation,,,,nobody cares bout ireland or a strike its a bit like the person who goes on hol to france, spain etc and air traffic controllers go on strike we moan but at the end of the day we continue to holiday there every year…
We need a list of the employees so we can picket their homes- fair is fair
DOWN WITH THAT SORT OF THING!!
I hope the esb die, I hope someone kills whoever thought it was a good idea to power outage everyone when they have things to do, people with a child’s mentality don’t deserve high ranking jobs. Fact!!!!
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