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Dublin: 8 °C Friday 24 May, 2013

Warning over defined benefit pension schemes

A pension expert has warned that members of some defined benefit pension schemes could find there is not enough money to cover their pension.

Image: Gareth Chaney/Photocall Ireland

PEOPLE ARE BEING warned about defined benefit pension schemes, with a pension expert saying that those under 45 “could end up with little or nothing” because of insolvency.

Clear Financial, which is based in Dublin, has issued a warning to younger (aged 45 or less) members of Defined Benefit (DB) pension schemes that have been or are likely to be declared “insolvent”.

Review

It is encouraging such people to review their current pension savings arrangement immediately.

It said that over 197,000 people are members of 993 DB pension schemes in Ireland, though this membership is down from 222,000 in 2010.

Clear Financial said that insolvent pension schemes “ultimately have insufficient money” to meet the pension promises made to all members of these schemes, but that “many members are still unaware of how exposed they could be”.

According to Michael Bradley of Clear Financial:

None of the money contributed by individual employees to DB schemes is ring-fenced in the name of that employee. What this ultimately means is that in a wind-up situation the rules of defined benefits dictate that younger members are discriminated against while those in and approaching retirement receive their funds first.

He said that the most drastic situation that could ensue would be where the entitlements of retired members soak up all available funds.

Alternative arrangemens

Bradley said he would “strongly advise” that employees in insolvent DB schemes put several questions to their pension trustees and use the answers to work out whether they should continue paying into the scheme or make alternative arrangements.

Younger employees should ascertain the average age of the members (not just current employees) of the scheme. If the average age of members is 15-20 years older than you, then it doesn’t look good as everyone older than you will have their pension benefits fully satisfied before you as they hit retirement age, even if this means you’ll get nothing.

If you’re older than the average age, then you’ll retire before most of the others and lock in your pension benefits.

But as each employee reaches retirement and extracts their pot of gold, there is proportionately less for those still working.

He also advises pension holders to ascertain the solvency level, as being insolvent means that the solvency level is less that 100 per cent.

This means that 95 per cent solvency shouldn’t generate too much worry, but 20 per cent solvency is different and indicates that there’s only enough money in the fund to cover 20 per cent of the liabilities, said Bradley.

He added that the implications for members depend on what category of membership in the defined benefit scheme you fall into – and if you are not amongst the older 20 per cent of members, you should consider a review.

Basically the employer and the trustees have to raise enough funds over a given period to make the pension scheme solvent. Those already retired in the scheme receive first priority over everything except Additional Voluntary Contributions (AVCs), and their pensions are protected.

Read: Another pension scheme may bite the dust: Why is it happening?>

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Comments (23 Comments)

  • A list of DB schemes that have solvency problems would be a useful thing…

    Reply
    • Mark the solvency of a particular Scheme is none of your business unless you are a Member. Thus you quite rightly have no access to such information.

      Reply
    • It would be my business if I was a prospective member; if I can’t find out if the scheme is about to fold and give my contributions to other members, why would I ever invest a cent in it?

      And once you accept that; and once you accept that any DB scheme that collapses leaves its members dependent on the State; the practice of keeping open financial healthchecks on pension schemes stops being “none of our business” and starts being a logical requirement to run a pension scheme.

      We’ve seen in the US what happens when there’s insufficient transparency around pension funds – they wind up insolvent because a company raids its piggybank for operating capital.

      Reply
    • Are there DB schemes out there which still accept new entrants? I was under the impression they are rare as hens teeth.
      As for existing schemes it never ceases to amaze me that the pension providers never take a hit on their often exorbitant charges and fees when things start to go downhill.
      Expect a push into private pensions or DC schemes from DB schemes and the resulting bonuses to the providers for generating “new business”.
      What a con.

      Reply
    • Jaysus, Mick, what a bizarre viewpoint.

      Reply
  • This ideally would serve to scare people into actually getting up and doing something!

    Reply
  • Why would any fool save for a pension?

    The government taxes your money on the way in, by not refunding your income tax paid.

    The government then taxes your money while it is in your pension fund, the pension levy.

    The government then taxes your money on exit from your pension fund, income tax again.

    One tax is fair enough but only a fool would sign up for three.

    Take your money out when you can and get it out of the country so this thieving government can’t take it from you!

    Reply
  • Tim your bowels are LOOSE regularly but most of your trolls LOSE the interest of readers quickly. Try an education or just give up trolling.

    Reply
  • It doesnt surprise me to read this. Ireland has become unbalanced as older people are living longer and thus drawing pensions for longer than ever intended. There are not enough people working to support this therefore pensions will be effected. It doesnt take a masters degree in economics to figure this one out. There wont be a state pension in 10-15 years either as the government are spending it on roads and infrastructure at the moment. The question is has anyone any solutions?

    Reply
    • Tax the rich. We currently have the lowest corporate tax take in western Europe. We also have little tax on wealth which the top 10% still hoard. Capital gains and dividends again are low-taxed. We cannot ignore these untouchables. We must sweep aside the irrational notion that taxing them somehow leads to “job losses”. It doesn’t.

      Reply
  • Right, defined pensions are only a promise with no financial penalty to the administrators if they make a mess of it. My big issue with DB is the culture, everyone in power has one. Civil servants, judges,politicians , hospital consultants, large financial instuitional directors.

    My opinion,Is that politicians should be the first to stop getting them. The superannuation scheme is a mess, costs a fortune and is funded directly out of public funds. Also no government levy on their funds, the capitalisation factor of 20 for them is ridicules and is no reflection of the true values of their pensions. Top end civil servants like turkeys don’t vote for Christmas and that is why most of them left if they could when the saw the changes coming in. Still not enough changes made.

    The hybrid scheme for new public servants is a step in the right direction but I feel it should be targeted at the lower end of the pay scale in the public sector. I still think the pension is a very important part of attracting good people into the public services and should be protected and valued in equal measure.

    When will a government party with real reform ideas lead by example, go dc on their pension benefits. Then they can look on the rest of the pension sector with real conviction and help a sector where the least important person is the pension holder.

    The 0.6% levy is a disgrace, for so many reasons. The investment advise around pensions is very poor in general and people will loss far more through bad investment decisions. That is why I feel the first thing the government should do is regulate properly those who have vested interested in the pensions industry. The policy holder should be protected. It is easier to get into selling pensions than it is to get a taxi licence, there is no barrier to entry in the pensions industry. The bar needs to be raised.

    one earlier contributor said pensions are not worthwhile, I disagree, it is very simple do the Maths. If you earn enough, there are significant advantages to taking out a pension but contributions should be reviewed on a year by year basis, if you are in a employer sponsored scheme, it makes even more sense, employer contributions are not subject to the USC or BIK.

    Sorry for the waffle but rant over now.

    Reply
    • You advocate the failed policies that got us into this mess (Tax breaks for the rich).

      The idea that the top 10% “create jobs” should be swept aside. Over the past 20 years, taxes on the rich have been falling despite a ballooning deficit due to tax shortfalls on the wealthy.

      Reply
    • No I don’t believe in tax breaks for rich but the rules are the rules. The thresholds have been reduced significantly so pensions are no longer the play thing of the rich. Each person should assess their own situation and make an informed decision. Try and save for your future and if there is a tax advantage take it.

      I am not making sweeping generalisations just giving an informed decision on an area that I am very concerned about.

      Reply
    • “No I don’t believe in tax breaks for rich but the rules are the rules”

      lol. So you basically go along like a sheep blindly accepting a corrupt, failed system of tax breaks. The rules aren’t written in stone.

      Reply
  • Rob……you must not get fooled by this old chestnut! Sure by all means put arrangements in place for your twilight years but make sure that the vehicle you set up for this will (to completely murder the analogy) pass the NCT now and in 30/40 years time. Two facts; 1) the value of money halves every10 years (average over last century). 2) the real rate of inflation is much higher than the published figures which DB pensions are pegged against.
    Spend your money now at full value or in 10 years time at half value or quarter value in 20 or 12.5 % in 30 years. answer. …buy appreciating assets that have a chance at offering an income while remembering how many of the world top 100 companies from 30 years ago are now even in existence. buy land , Commercial centre city property or share spreads

    Reply
  • ha ha Robbie don’t you know that 80 is the new 60 :-). I will spend my hoard of green shield stamps and post office savings on a total body transplant and live forever.. …

    Reply
  • Pensions are indeed the worst gamble of the herd mentality. The truth is that only the civil service pensions are worth having as they make every state employee with one an instant millionaire. only the very wealthy could afford such a guaranteed scheme as this and would pay through the nose for it.
    Forget tax the rich there Tim, tax the civil service on the market value of this one hell of a benefit in kind !!

    Reply
    • My man Eddie, will have to disagree. Forget the word pension for a minute and look at tax advantages. If there are none don’t do one. Plan for your future in some way though. I have seen a lot of people who put nothing in place, save for your future be it a simple savings account, property, your business. Ensure what ever you do that you have structured it to suit you.

      Organised people know at the start of the year how much they are going to set aside and make it a priority. Saving is a habit and if you can gain a tax advantage then use products that allow this. If not suitable look else where.

      Reply
  • Tax the top 10% and increase taxes on the rich and corporations to help the working people pay into their pensions. Ireland is loosing tax because of tax breaks under the Fine Gael administration.

    Reply

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