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Dublin: 3 °C Thursday 23 May, 2013

Daft, MyHome reports offer mixed messages on house prices

Two new reports on property prices out this morning agree that prices are falling, but not on very much else.

Image: Eamonn Farrell/Photocall Ireland

TWO NEW REPORTS on the state of Ireland’s property market, both released this morning, offer mixed messages on the state of house prices.

A quarterly report from Daft.ie suggests that the price of the average house fell by 1.4 per cent in the first quarter of this year, while rival site MyHome.ie said house prices had fallen by 7.2 per cent.

Daft.ie’s estimate said the 1.4 per cent drop was the smallest quarterly decline in prices since the market began to fall in 2007, while MyHome.ie said its estimate of a 7.2 per cent fall was the steepest decline in three years.

Daft.ie’s report said the website had noticed small increases in house prices in Dublin (4 per cent) and Galway (2.3 per cent), but that prices had fallen in Cork, Waterford and Limerick were all down. Properties outside the cities saw prices fall by an average of 2.2 per cent.

The report suggested the total number of properties for sale right now was 54,000, the lowest in four years – a figure which Daft.ie economist Ronan Lyons said indicated an increase in sales, when combined with other statistics showing an increase in the number of houses which sold within four months of going to market.

Nonetheless, it is unlikely that prices will stabilise nationally until there is a substantial increase in activity, which itself will require mortgage lending by banks.

MyHome.ie said prices in the capital were down by 7.5 per cent, with prices in Cork down by 6 per cent, and in Galway down by 4 per cent.

Its author Annette Hughes of DKM Economic Consultants said recent reports indicated that prices were set to fall by a further 10 to 15 per cent.

“With prices falling by around 2 per cent per month, this implies another 6 to 7 months of falling prices, before possibly stabilising in the second half of the year,” Hughes said.

However any move towards price stability in the latter half of 2012 will need to be accompanied by a recovery in the jobs market, the prospects for which are very weak over the coming months.

MyHome.ie director Angela Keegan said the median asking price for a 3-bedroom semi-detached house was now around €185,000, a figure equivalent to five times the average annual wage, and that this indicated prices were approaching sustainable levels.

UCC economist Seamus Coffey, commenting on the Daft.ie report, said measuring the price of property was “an art rather than a science”, and said the planned establishment of a national house price register later this year would help to deal with inconsistencies between private reports and those of the CSO.

He added that anecdotal evidence, which could not be verified, suggested that around 30 per cent of property transactions were being carried out in cash – leading to an overall estimate of 16,000 annual property sales.

This equates to an annual turnover rate of 0.8 per cent – a figure which indicated a distressed market, he said.

Disclosure: Daft Media Ltd and Journal Media Ltd, the publisher of this website, are both part of the Distilled Media group.

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Comments (45 Comments)

  • The fact is ye have no clue really

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  • There is supposed to be a property price database coming online in June (I think) which will show actual sale prices from January 2010 onwards. This will hopefully lift the cloak on what houses are actually selling for. Asking prices only tell half the story.

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  • There is a five-fold difference in the MyHome.ie versus the Daft.ie measurements – that’s a huge gap. Anyone know why these figures are different?

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    • Ardo Ci 02/04/12 #

      Yes! Just have to ask yourself who they are serving. Common sense and a look round your own neighbourhood will tell you the truth.

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    • This morning the guy from DAFT said that they were looking at different timescales in the market.

      I didn’t get the full gist of what he was saying because I wasn’t listening completely to it but from what I remember it was that DAFT were looking at the segment of the market that came on to their books in the last few months whereas MyHome were looking at their full listings. It was something like that.

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    • The sooner the house price index of actual transaction prices starts the better. It will remove a lot of the uncertainty and “dark corners” in the current statistics.

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    • This is very simple and even if the data is the same that both daft and myhome are analyzing which it is not i assume as not all agent and private seller use both. The methods applied are most likely different and will suit the systems both apply internally.

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  • I am looking to buy at the minute, saw a house I liked on the market for €245k for over a year, saw it a few times but knew it wouldn’t get that. The auctioneer phoned to say there had been an offer of €200k made, I said that was too much for me as the house needed a lot of work also. I was a bit curious however and decided to ask the new owners how much they paid, explained I had been interested also. The new owner told me she offered 180 and it had been accepted. How can the market possibly recover when auctioneers are still playing these games? I could potentially have been prepared to offer €190 but would not have bothered if I thought someone had offered 10 more already.

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  • Startling and conflicting messages coming out from various organizations this morning, one report tells us asking prices are rising and sales closing quicker, another report tells us property prices have fallen another 7% since the beginning of the new year and this on top of the estimated collapse of 56% or so claimed by our friends at NAMA. Looking through some of the property websites yesterday and it is painfully obvious there is ZERO movement and a complete collapse in prices, especially on Daft. So who to believe? me thinks the answer is quite simple, its a mess. Few if any homeowners are in a position to either sell or upgrade, we know there are few mortgage loans being approved, I can only surmise vested interests are wishful thinking.

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  • I would never trust an auctioneer,sure they were screwing people when they were selling and buying houses in the good old days. They are part of the problem,and to listen to them is just nonsense. Never ever trust an autioneer.

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  • If anyone wants figures, how are these? We bought a house in West Cork in 2000 for €158K and put €50K into it, as it was someone’s unfinished project (bed bungalow on about one acre, surrounded by trees and beside a lovely little stream overhung with apple and hawthorn trees). It was valued about six years ago at €295K. The house has been for sale for a little more than two years (we moved for my husband’s job change) and the current agent said homes in the area like ours (nothing really like ours, but he said 3 bed bungalows in the countryside) are only selling at around €150K! Of course, that was a month ago. Who knows what it’s really worth today?! Two weeks ago I read prices are estimated to drop about 70% from what houses were valued at five years ago. If that’s the case, our house may only be worth around €80K? At what point do we start panicking, or just give the keys to the bank?

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    • Why would you give the keys back to the bank Kemberlee? If its your main home and you can afford the mortgage just sit tight. If you hand the keys back to the bank they will sell the property in a fire sale and hound you for the difference between the sale price and your mortgage plus costs. Don’t worry.

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    • Hey Family Guy,

      I appreciae your comments. The fact is that we moved for my husband’s work so we had to put the house on the market. We’re paying high rents near Dublin and the mortgage. And heating oil for both houses in the last three winters, utilities, insurance, etc on two houses. The wage increase he received to move just barely pays for the house we’re not living in. And rent and utilities where we are are about 30% higher than in West Cork. As is food, petrol and other basic living expenses. We’re almost worse off having moved than having stayed put. We’re doing everything possible to keep the keys in our own hands. The funny thing is that we’ve managed to rent it, but the rent doesn’t cover half the mortgage. However they want to buy the house and we want to sell. The problem? The bank won’t lend them money. No reason other than ‘We’re not lending at the moment.’ They have excellent credit, own their own business that’s doing remarkably well, and want to start a family as soon as they can buy a house so they have family stability in a locale. But the bank won’t budge. And according to Irish property laws, we can’t cary the mortgage or do any deals between them and us that doesn’t involve the bank, unless of course they pay cash, which they don’t have . . . not in that amount anyway. My husband has been offered work outside of Ireland, but we can’t even take that until the house sells. It’s madness. Meanwhile, my husband’s job has actually changed twice since we’ve moved (the first place went bust after two years and the last two changes have come in the last six months) with decreasing income, yet higher taxes and all the rest. And now, if he took a job back in Cork, we don’t have a house to go back to because it’s rented. We’re holding on, hoping for a miracle, especially as up here we’re seeing Sale Agreeds on a lot of house and the For Sale signs coming down. Property is shifting, but the money is apparently staying in the Greater Dublin Area. As usual.

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    • Fair Play to our commitment Kemberlee.

      A lot of people out there are not paying their mortgages full stop.

      They live 4-5 years mortgage/rent free and then move on when they get evicted.

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    • typo
      your commitment

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    • Fagan's 02/04/12 #

      A one acre site in West Cork is still going to sell for about 50k. I wouldn’t worry too much, unless you are going to sell in the next few years then you do not have a problem.

      Sit under the apple trees in your orchard, and thank God that you are in beautiful West Cork on an acre rather than an estate in Dublin.

      (Nothing wrong with estates in Dublin, grew up in the countryside and If I can seem more tarmac than grass I feel out of place.

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    • That’s interesting what you say, Fagan’s. We have a six acre site directly behind our house, which is on one acre. Both are for sale. The estate agent said we might get 50K for the acreage. Maybe! It’s located in Macroom . . . ‘The Gateway to West Cork’ as they claim, but where we are is less than 30 minutes from Bantry and Glengarriff, and Killarney. I’d LOVE to think I can get 50K per acre and not for all of six acres. There are actually two big fields in the six acres, plus one smaller one which is surrounded by trees and has wonderful long grass. It’s known as the Rabbit Field because all the rabbits feed on the grass back there.

      If we still lived in that house, believe me, I’d be planting apple trees. We’re renting in Kildare at the minute. Personally, I like the manicured countryside around the studs. I love West Cork, but really, I’d want to be much closer to the sea. I grew up with the Pacific on my doorstep. Country living is not really for me ;-)

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  • “…if all economists were laid down end to end they would not reach a conclusion…”- George Bernard Shaw

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  • I’m sick of hearing about the price of houses, this kinda talk got us where we are today. My house is my home.

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  • Never listen to daft or my home there stats are so incorrect it’s laughable, they have no idea what the agreed price is as in most instances these days the price agreed is upwards of 70% lower of asking price. House prices will keep falling for at least another 2 to 3 years then stabalise for a very long time. Never listen to the media, go on to the property pin for real advice.

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  • Daft.ie and myhome (irish times) are both bought and owned by the media who will tell you the false spin and gladly see another fake bubble for their own vested interests and back pockets. Never listen to this lot, anyone with half a brain can see property is still vastly over priced and has a good few more years of decline. The media are the last people you should listen too.

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    • could not agree more, its also ovbvious to a keen eye that feck all properties are selling based on a simple occasional review of these sites over the past few months. Indeed, taking a peak yesterday my own neighbours house is still on the these sites at a price of 330k, original asking price in 2010 was 485k. The house finally sold because of intense financial pressures for 225k including all fixtures, fittings, even the ride on lawn mower. It was a private sale in the end and my neighbour joined to list of 1,000′s heading to Austrailia. Sad in many respects. Three months after the sale, the property is still listed, gone are the days these sites would take properties off their sites for late payments etc, seems they are using the recruitment website models, fictious jobs postings just to fill web pages.

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    • Spot on.

      And even if and when there are some sales.

      The banks will not be giving mortgages to the working poor.

      They will however be funding their well heeled chums,politicians and civil servants to build portfolios in their kids and spouses names.

      Who do you think these ”Negative Equity Mortgages” are for.

      They’re for the banks chums to get out of a tricky spot and buy up the cheap repossessions of the banks books.

      I ask you,
      go into your friendly bank today and ask for one of these ”Negative Equity” (crony only) Mortgages…
      and see what they say.

      (1) Mr Banker or Mr Banker’s Political Chum gets into a bit of a tricky spot with a few negative equity buy to lets in the boom.

      (2) Bank says that’s O.K. we will change legislation so that we can give our Cronies ”Negative Equity” mortgages to buy their cheap ”Off market” Bank Repo’s for a song, to offset against their Boom time negative equity mistakes.

      There is nothing in there for Joe Public.
      Only lots of funding for Crony ”Vultures” to buy his repossessed home after he is kicked out on the street.

      The Banks Have Enough Fcucking Mortgages out there!!
      Let them fix their existing ones first!!
      Let them work with their struggling, very stressed, tormented loyal customers, before they go dishing out any of these ”Crony Mortgages”

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    • Taxpayer Bails out the corrupt Banks.

      In return, the corrupt bank repossess taxpayer home.

      Bank then funds Crony to the hilt to buy taxpayers repossessed home.

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  • More evidence for rural depopulation.

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  • Peter 02/04/12 #

    My dad made no moves on any sort of investment during the Celtic tiger now to most economists he’s a genius lol his disbelief of all the hype and predicting it all failing from the beginning.. And there’s worse to come… Just wait for the us to get into a dept crisis and the hurricanes will hit !

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  • To put some perspective on what all these percentages and numbers actually mean,
    New 2 bed terrace South-side Dublin
    Launch price 1999 IR£ 200,000 = € 254,000
    Identical houses same street sold
    2003 € 365,000
    2012 € 230,000 (This is c.10% Below 1999 price)
    On this basis most property bought after 1998 has lost value
    (1998 – Planning Tribunal opens, Good Friday agreement, TV3 starts, Omagh bombing, Westlife formed).
    So that’s where its at.

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  • Curious on thoughts about this new absurd notion some banks are considering regarding negative equity mortgages. It astonishes me that the Central Bank is actually considering a product that will essentially dig a hole so deep for current mortgage holders in the negativity trap that they may as well dig their way to Australia. Basically they seem to be proposing to allow some customers park the negativity equity aspect of their current mortgages, purchase “I assume” a larger property and revisit the negativity equity aspect of their previous mortgage down the road, essentially kick it to touch. Perhaps I am naive but this notion seems at best ridiculous and at worst, digging people further and further into debt. I doubt very much banks will allow “Yer grand about that small matter of the few bob you owe us on your previous mortgage”, absolutely bizarre stuff.

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  • 02/04/12 #

    Disclaimer: We are estate agents.

    As there is a clear need from the public for actual house price information. Please see below a sample of recent sales in our area North Dublin. We cannot give out specific addresses or details of private client transactions. We can give out prices in broad terms. We hope this information will be useful to some people. Depending on the reaction to this post, we can make information of other transactions available.

    2 bed semi detached house, Santry, Dublin 9, €199,000 (extended, poor condition) December 2011
    3 bed semi detached house, Donaghmede, Dublin 13 €180,000 (fair condition) Febuary 2012
    5 bed semi detached house, Donaghmede, Dublin 13 €305,000 (excellent condition) January 2012
    2 bed apartment, Malahide, Co. Dublin €265,000 (fair condtition) December 2011

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  • The talk on this matter is beginning to sound like we are reaching the bottom finally, some balance in the market would be good so that i can sell my house and move to a bigger home. (Hey there is even hope that i can keep my tracker mortgage when i move)

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  • We sold our house April ’12 this year, well-presented four bed 1300 sq ft, three recpt. rooms, lanscaped garden in Luttrellstown for 290,000. We are currently renting in the same area and waiting for house prices to fall. We want to trade down to a three bed in the same area and our Estate Agent advised us to sell at the price mentioned. He told us that three beds were selling for 225k in our area. Checking on myhome.ie three beds asking prices are between 295k and 325k! Only reliable info we have is what we sold at. Asking prices in our area have not changed or slightly increased in some cases since last year! There is no clarity, where we badly advised? Don’t know, can’t wait to the property selling price index comes out, but when will that be? Same Estate Agent also told the buyers of our house that we were including oven/hob and other things in the sale, which was a complete lie, in fact we had told him that we were definately taking them. Luckily we did not have these on the contract but we got irate letters from their solicitor, thank god I had the post re-directed!

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  • Yes Joey.

    These ”much needed” mortgage products are coming soon to a bank near you.

    They’re thinking of calling them.
    Ansbacher,
    Anglo,
    P Flynn,
    Charlie Haughey,
    Michael Lowrey,
    Seanie Fitz’s Mobile Number Crony Digout, Buy up the Bank Repoes Mortgages.

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  • I know of a Ferrari & Range Rover driving, plastic surgeon squatter in Dublin.
    He paid a deposit got the keys used the deposit in lieu of a rent for a couple of years, now settlement time has passed, he refuses to budge or pay up.

    Nip/Tuck meets Shameless.

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  • and they will make it back on the household charge .

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